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Thread: Baritone, BB, and Bass Opera Passages

  1. #31
    Senior Member Sieglinde's Avatar
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    Let's not forget his beautiful "Il balen" either:



    Like damn, I've had a crush on Conte di Luna since I was 12, but Dima turned that up to eleven. What Leonora sees in Manrico is a mystery. You could have a man who sings this absolutely gorgeous aria and you go and die for some ungrateful tenor?

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  3. #32
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    Agree, one of the best.

  4. #33
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    It was a reply to London's Wotan, does not show as a reply on my phone.

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    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
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    If we're considering Wotans, let's not forget Hans Hermann Nissen:



    Or, of course, Friedrich Schorr:



    I also came across this oddity - Matti Salminen as Wotan in the last half of Walküre Act 3:



    As for Goerne, as beautifully as he sings the music, at least on a recording, there's something not quite right about the voice itself in the role. His voice doesn't sound particularly large (and having heard him live, it really isn't), and it's a very, very dark sound with little brilliance. That is sometimes effective - Wotan's big monologue in Walkure Act 2, for example. But when the music needs more vocal brilliance, even brassiness (think of the first section of the Abschied, parts of the scene in Siegfried with Mime, or the opening of Siegfried Act 3, I find Goerne wanting - there's just not enough sheer voice for my taste.

    Nor am I a big fan of George London's Wotan. It's mostly subjective - I just don't care for the quality of the voice itself. He's got plenty of brass, but that's about it. There's no sense of tenderness, or repose. And I've never heard a London performance that didn't feature a lot of rather out-of-tune singing.

    For me, Hotter and Schorr are, without question, the two greatest Wotans on record - I won't choose between the two of them. Schorr certainly had the better pipes - at least before 1935 or so - but in terms of characterization, Hotter had no equal.

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  7. #35
    Senior Member Bonetan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkasimer View Post
    I also came across this oddity - Matti Salminen as Wotan in the last half of Walküre Act 3:



    As for Goerne, as beautifully as he sings the music, at least on a recording, there's something not quite right about the voice itself in the role. His voice doesn't sound particularly large (and having heard him live, it really isn't), and it's a very, very dark sound with little brilliance. That is sometimes effective - Wotan's big monologue in Walkure Act 2, for example. But when the music needs more vocal brilliance, even brassiness (think of the first section of the Abschied, parts of the scene in Siegfried with Mime, or the opening of Siegfried Act 3, I find Goerne wanting - there's just not enough sheer voice for my taste.

    Nor am I a big fan of George London's Wotan. It's mostly subjective - I just don't care for the quality of the voice itself. He's got plenty of brass, but that's about it. There's no sense of tenderness, or repose. And I've never heard a London performance that didn't feature a lot of rather out-of-tune singing.
    OMG Salminen as Wotan?? What a find! Thanks for sharing :-)

    Also thank you for articulating the way I feel about Goerne as Wotan better than I ever could lol

    I wish London's career hadn't been cut short so he could have really grown into his Wotan. I don't think anyone was ever blessed with a voice more suited to the role. You're right about him singing consistently out of tune too, of course. I've had to make sure not to listen to his recordings when learning a new role. I've learned things wrong because of him...

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  9. #36
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonetan View Post
    OMG Salminen as Wotan?? What a find! Thanks for sharing :-)
    A few true basses have been unable to resist the urge to sing the Walkure Wotan - Hans Sotin and Jerome Hines, for example. And Mark Reizen and Alexander Kipnis both made terrific recordings of the Abschied.

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  11. #37
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    The Wotan of Sigurd Bjorling (apparently no relation to Jussi) seems to me worthy of this company. Here he is at Bayreuth in 1951 (start at 51:22):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h-_L0-bR4g

    Such clarity of timbre is worth a great deal.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sieglinde View Post
    Let's not forget his beautiful "Il balen" either:



    Like damn, I've had a crush on Conte di Luna since I was 12, but Dima turned that up to eleven. What Leonora sees in Manrico is a mystery. You could have a man who sings this absolutely gorgeous aria and you go and die for some ungrateful tenor?
    Absolutely breaks my heart into a million pieces.
    I miss him so bad.

  14. #39
    Senior Member aussiebushman's Avatar
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    Why no mention so far of Kipnis? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN4oBF_YJuM

    Or Boris Shtokolov for that matter? Maybe not quite is the class of Kipnis but further comparisons are a bit churlish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjHKskk850s

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  16. #40
    Senior Member Bonetan's Avatar
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  18. #41
    Senior Member Sieglinde's Avatar
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    The ultimate bass boss fight XD

    How about a Siepi vs Neri match?


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  20. #42
    Senior Member Rogerx's Avatar
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    Germont - act III Aria - Dmitri Hvorostovsky

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  22. #43
    Senior Member Sieglinde's Avatar
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    And another fantastic Il balen:



    Tézier makes me so happy. A true golden age Verdi voice with legato that makes me tearbend and all paired with such elegance and nobility. (Also quite the nice Ferrando he has there!)

  23. #44
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JosefinaHW View Post
    I have that entire cycle on DVD. Would you like me to watch the first three operas or just the Wache, Wala!?


    Just between you and me: I watched Tannhauser w. Richard Cassilly and B. Weikl. (I ABSOLUTELY HATED IT!) I'm not even going to donate this DVD.

    To give just the music a second chance I ordered a CD with Rene Pape and Thomas Hampson. If the two of them can't sing it in a way that I'll like more, that's it for this one until you or Goerne perform it.) Why would you ever want to perform that thing?
    Sadly JosefinaHW you picked a right clunker of a Tannhäuser to watch. I've got this DVD and I've watched it once and it's extremely doubtful I'll watch it again. Again, sadly, Tannhäuser is not well served on DVD but there are a fair wheen of great audio versions out there!
    Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate!

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  25. #45
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    "Il balen del suo sorriso" sounds like an easy tune to sing, but it isn't. Its high-lying phrases separate the baritones from the barelytones, and any singer who can go up and over those phrases without having to make an audible shift in his vocal gears (usually into something unattractive like yawning or bellowing or wobbling) gets a prize from me. Here's a sort-of-forgotten prewar singer who takes the prize:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2CBoc8ooYo

    Nicolae Herlea (also sort-of-forgotten) gets it too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i5XVFJGy0s

    There are plenty of bigger names who don't get the prize.
    Last edited by Woodduck; Apr-05-2019 at 05:55.

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