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Thread: CD’s are still the best playback format according to John Darko!

  1. #31
    Senior Member haydnguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    There's a hipster niche market for cassette tapes now (but not for classical music, as far as I know), which blows my mind. There are no redeeming qualities of cassette tapes, aside from perhaps nostalgia.
    Yeah, the only thing worse was 8-tracks. People started listening to 8-tracks (I think) because you could ride around in your car and listen to them. But they were horrible.

    The real neat thing about the vinyls was the artwork. I really miss that. I was looking at a Beatles White Album not long ago and forgotten that it actually came with a glossy picture insert booklet that was really impressive. The art is what I really miss about the vinyl days.
    Last edited by haydnguy; May-01-2019 at 14:58.

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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    There were two advantages to 8 tracks... they were less linear than LPs or tapes because the tape was an endless loop with four stereo tracks playing at the same time. You could jump around in the album without fast forwarding. Also, 8 tracks were able to do quadraphonic sound. There are a lot of albums with surround mixes that only exist on 8 track.
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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Their tape was bigger, too, than a cassette.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Actually, the effective tape area of 8 track was the same. Cassette was 1/8 inch tape with two stereo tracks, and 8 track was 1/4 inch tape with four stereo tracks. However, cassette travelled at 1 7/8 ips, while 8 track travelled at 3 3/4... so there was an advantage there. But the big problem with 8 track was wow and flutter. That endless loop being fed from the middle of the wrap was constantly fluctuating as the tape resisted being pulled off the spool. Cassettes fed the tape through much more smoothly.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member apricissimus's Avatar
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    To this day when I hear certain songs, I expect to hear the same distortions I heard over and over on my worn out cassette tapes that I listened to to death when I was 13. (My cassette tapes are all long gone, of course, and I would have no way to play them.)

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    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    With a quality, steady tape transport, cassettes can sound fine and I still have a number of them played on a Marantz. But that’s the problem: tape transports could be poor and one could hear the wow and flutter of the tape speed, especially on a piano tape... I do not consider CDs the end-all and be-all of good sound. But they are convenient and can sound fine, especially when heard through an analog amp. It takes some of the edge off the sometimes edgy digital files... It was the more high-end cassette players that of course had the better transports and I thought the tapes sounded fine - I still do - plus with auto reverse you could have as much as 90 minutes of playing time, and that was considered quite extensive at the time. There was also the fun of making your own mix tapes. It was creative! Oooo. There is far more choice now of media and equipment and some of it is a steal from China, especially some of the budget hybrid/valve amps that can represent the best of both the digital and analog worlds. Ignore the “experts” who don’t know anything about them and can only talk from theory and speculation. Sometimes it’s necessary to take a chance and simply try things that can be returned if you don’t like it. And great sound can sometimes be had on a relative budget, including hybrid/valve headphone amps.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; Jun-25-2019 at 10:23.
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    My circumstances don't permit me to listen except with headphones, so surround is irrelevant, even though I can see there would be an advantage. CD is high enough resolution, and it can be ripped losslessly to disc. I'm not interested in any of the various high resolution formats (SACD DSD layer, DVD-audio, Blu Ray audio) since they can't be ripped (except some Blu-Ray audio discs contain high-res PCM audio which can be copied off with appropriate software).

    My listening is currently 99% FLAC files which I have either ripped from CD (or SACD CD layer) or purchased as a download.

    Life is too short to spend fighting with a turntable. I have a few LP transfers I did years ago, but don't have any intention of ever having a turntable again.
    Last edited by Baron Scarpia; Jun-25-2019 at 00:34.

  9. #38
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Scarpia View Post
    My circumstances don't permit me to listen except with headphones, so surround is irrelevant, even though I can see there would be an advantage. CD is high enough resolution, and it can be ripped losslessly to disc. I'm not interested in any of the various high resolution formats (SACD DSD layer, DVD-audio, Blu Ray audio) since they can't be ripped (except there is one variant of Blu Ray audio which contains flac files that can be copied off, if you are willing to jump through enough hoops, as I understand it).

    My listening is currently 99% FLAC files which I have either ripped from CD (or SACD CD layer) or purchased as a download.

    Life is too short to spend fighting with a turntable. I have a few LP transfers I did years ago, but don't have any intention of ever having a turntable again.
    Don't know about Blu-Ray, but you can rip the SACD layer of a SACD if you have the right SACD player. (There are several models that can do this.) I've ripped about 450. It is time consuming though.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jegreenwood View Post
    Don't know about Blu-Ray, but you can rip the SACD layer of a SACD if you have the right SACD player. (There are several models that can do this.) I've ripped about 450. It is time consuming though.
    Interesting. Rip to a file containing DSD? How do you play it?

    I've never had an SACD where I could tell the different between the red book layer and the two channel DSD layer, so I don't think the extra effort would be worth it in my case.

  11. #40
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Scarpia View Post
    Interesting. Rip to a file containing DSD? How do you play it?

    I've never had an SACD where I could tell the different between the red book layer and the two channel DSD layer, so I don't think the extra effort would be worth it in my case.
    Basically, the process relies on bugs in the player firmware. There are threads on various forums about it, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link them. I have an old Sony PS3 (and it has to be older than when Sony realized what they'd done) that I used. I also have an Oppo 105 that can do it (but not the 205). I believe there are some Pioneer models and other brands as well. You end up with an unecrypted .iso, from which you can extract the files.
    Last edited by jegreenwood; Jun-25-2019 at 00:20.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    There were two advantages to 8 tracks... they were less linear than LPs or tapes because the tape was an endless loop with four stereo tracks playing at the same time. You could jump around in the album without fast forwarding. Also, 8 tracks were able to do quadraphonic sound. There are a lot of albums with surround mixes that only exist on 8 track.
    The "less linear" doesn't seem to be much of an advantage to me. You can jump to the next track, but that would put you at a random spot in the program. You can't cue up the track you want by rewinding of fast-forward, as in cassettes. I remember them in car players or boom-boxes. Were there 8 track decks for hi-fi sets?

  13. #42
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    In a car, less linear was a good thing. If you didn't want to hear a song, you could bounce to three other places with the push of a button. With a cassette, you had to fast forward, which was a pain while you were driving. Wollensack made a fantastic 8 track deck for the home, but it was mainly for recording your own tapes for the car or on the go. I have one in my closet... but I doubt it works any more.
    Last edited by bigshot; Jun-25-2019 at 02:54.
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  14. #43
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jegreenwood View Post
    Don't know about Blu-Ray, but you can rip the SACD layer of a SACD if you have the right SACD player. (There are several models that can do this.) I've ripped about 450. It is time consuming though.
    Could you explain further? The reason Sony patented the SACD process is so it could not be accessed digitally, and you had to have their chip to decode it. It's supposed to be an analog-only access file.
    I've heard about certain year-models of Playstations which do allow access. This would be a patent violation, though.
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  15. #44
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Could you explain further? The reason Sony patented the SACD process is so it could not be accessed digitally, and you had to have their chip to decode it. It's supposed to be an analog-only access file.
    I've heard about certain year-models of Playstations which do allow access. This would be a patent violation, though.
    That would be tricky as one branch of Sony would be suing another.

    About 10 years ago, some clever people discovered a flaw in a chip used in early PS3s. They developed a "game" that allowed users to create unencrypted .iso files (disc copies). You could then take the .iso file and, using a computer, extract the DSD files from it. Nowadays, those early PS3s are hard to come by, and the flaw has long since been removed in a firmware upgrade.

    More recently, some clever people discovered that a similar flaw existed in the Mediatek chips MT8580 and MT8560 which are used in a number of SACD/universal players including several Pioneer models and the Oppo 103/105 series. I have an Oppo 105 that I can use when my PS3 dies.

    To my knowledge, Sony has not take any legal action.
    Last edited by jegreenwood; Jun-26-2019 at 15:05.

  16. #45
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Here are instructions on how to do it...
    https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/t...-yes-its-true/

    I haven't bothered myself though because it's pretty time consuming.
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
    AES Damn Lies Seminar: http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

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