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Thread: Bohm Ring

  1. #16
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    Das Rheingold would be my pick. I think what we have on CD gets increasingly worse as the cycle goes on.
    In what way? Sound wise? Singing wise?
    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    In what way? Sound wise? Singing wise?
    My statement was probably a little harsh. I think it's a very good to great set. I like it far more than the Solti or the Karajan, if we're looking at those big 60s Rings.

    I like Die Walküre, but little stood out for me. In Siegfried I really like Wohlfahrt, and Windgassen (in the first act), but I don't like those two voices matched with Adam. Then the finale feels sloppy and without energy. And I think it's the editing that really hurts Götterdämmerung and kills the flow of the music.

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  4. #18
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    My statement was probably a little harsh. I think it's a very good to great set. I like it far more than the Solti or the Karajan, if we're looking at those big 60s Rings.

    I like Die Walküre, but little stood out for me. In Siegfried I really like Wohlfahrt, and Windgassen (in the first act), but I don't like those two voices matched with Adam. Then the finale feels sloppy and without energy. And I think it's the editing that really hurts Götterdämmerung and kills the flow of the music.
    It's such a long time since I last heard the officially released Böhm Ring cycle that I can't disagree. That coupled with the fact that it's not a proper complete cycle played over four days would suggest that you may have a point about the Götterdämmerung. I may, when I have the time, listen to the '65 Ring with Böhm which is a proper integrated cycle, unedited, warts and all and report back. The dates for anyone that cares are 25, 26, 28 and 30 July 1965. I won't embarrass anyone by saying which opera goes with which date!
    Last edited by Barbebleu; May-03-2019 at 23:20.
    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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  6. #19
    Senior Member Sonata's Avatar
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    Thank you for your thoughts! My update: I went with Walkure based on comments here. I listened to the first act and fifteen minutes of the second my impression was favorable...but not favorable enough to continue.

    Wagner has always been a tough nut to crack, and I think I'm happy with the versions I've already found. I wasn't disappointed in Bohm, but I neither was I compelled to continue. I already have Karajan, Goodall, Barenboim, and like Solti to boot. I am weary of digging in to new recordings and am going to intstead really get to know these ones.
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    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    As an afterthought, both the '65 and '66 Götterdämmerungs have the bonkers Gutrune cut in Act 3 , Scene 3 that Wieland Wagner and Böhm both inexplicably sanctioned. I would have sanctioned the two of them for that crime!
    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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  10. #21
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    As an afterthought, both the '65 and '66 Götterdämmerungs have the bonkers Gutrune cut in Act 3 , Scene 3 that Wieland Wagner and Böhm both inexplicably sanctioned. I would have sanctioned the two of them for that crime!
    He cut it because he could see no point in it, according to John Culshaw

  11. #22
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Yeas, Culshaw. Not the most reliable of commentators as far as I'm concerned. He may well be right but if that's the criterion being applied then what's the point of anything really? If I was to make cuts that I didn't see the point of then we would have a fairly short list of things to watch! Absolutely nonsensical cut imho.
    Last edited by Barbebleu; May-08-2019 at 17:01.
    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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  13. #23
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    Yeas, Culshaw. Not the most reliable of commentators as far as I'm concerned. He may well be right but if that's the criterion being applied then what's the point of anything really? If I was to make cuts that I didn't see the point of then we would have a fairly short list of things to watch! Absolutely nonsensical cut imho.
    Well, at least Culshaw was more likely to know what was going on than us. He actually blamed Bohm for allowing it.
    Last edited by DavidA; May-08-2019 at 17:10.

  14. #24
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    As an afterthought, both the '65 and '66 Götterdämmerungs have the bonkers Gutrune cut in Act 3 , Scene 3 that Wieland Wagner and Böhm both inexplicably sanctioned. I would have sanctioned the two of them for that crime!
    From the time I first became acquainted with the Ring, that little scene was a favorite moment. It's the only time we see Gutrune as a person alone with her thoughts, and the ominous lull between the powerful funeral music and the violent quarrel to come is masterfully calculated. I find it inexplicable that Wieland Wagner wouldn't have felt this, or at least trusted his grandpa to know his business.

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  16. #25
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    From the time I first became acquainted with the Ring, that little scene was a favorite moment. It's the only time we see Gutrune as a person alone with her thoughts, and the ominous lull between the powerful funeral music and the violent quarrel to come is masterfully calculated. I find it inexplicable that Wieland Wagner wouldn't have felt this, or at least trusted his grandpa to know his business.
    Yep. A moment of repose between what has just happened and what's about to happen! Outstanding dramatic placing.
    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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