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Thread: Can you hear mastering in MP3s? I can.

  1. #31
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jegreenwood View Post
    It's certainly hit or miss.

    p.s. I've spent some time on that other forum. Don't let them get started on Layla.
    I always thought Layla sounded like crap from the first time I heard it, and it still does.

    One artist I don't think remastering has helped: Jimi Hendrix. See, bigshot, I don;t always buy-in to everything!
    Last edited by millionrainbows; May-29-2019 at 11:48.
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    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    What Mastering Services do: https://www.sageaudio.com/cd-mastering.php
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-29-2019 at 14:59.
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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    I have the 20th Anniversary re-mixed Layla. Better than the older CD but still not great. It's just a flawed recording.
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    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    The original recorded sound quality of Layla is terrible, but there’s a live performance that’s much better:



    I have nothing against this song.

    The original recording from the recording studio from hell:

    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-29-2019 at 15:59.
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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    I'm pretty tired of the music, but I bought it for Bell Bottom Blues. Love that song!
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    Senior Member apricissimus's Avatar
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    James Brown's "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" is very poorly recorded. Such a shame for such a classic song. Very frustrating! Other JB songs from the same era sound better. If I recall correctly, they recorded it at a new/unfamiliar studio while on tour.
    Last edited by apricissimus; May-29-2019 at 16:55.

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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    One artist I don't think remastering has helped: Jimi Hendrix. See, bigshot, I don;t always buy-in to everything!
    You obviously haven't heard the new Electric Ladyland blu-ray audio disc. The sound on that is truly spectacular.

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    It sounds like you have made some compromises to remastering that I haven't; and you've made all the wrong choices.
    I was just explaining the purpose behind mastering. I made no choices or compromises myself. Mastering engineers make decisions to serve the audience they are aiming for.
    Last edited by bigshot; May-29-2019 at 17:34.
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  10. #38
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    I have the 20th Anniversary re-mixed Layla. Better than the older CD but still not great. It's just a flawed recording.
    That's why I find their debates over best mastering so funny. They're all bad.

  11. #39
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    The Layla was about the re-mix, but you can polish a turd and it's still a turd. That recording always sounded like there's some kind of grime on the signal that just can't be cleaned up. It doesn't breath.
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  13. #40
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    I can't see investing in Blu-ray if the players aren't going to be made anymore. As far as Hendrix, I like the sound of Axis, and Cry Of Love. Never liked the other studio albums as far as sound goes. It works out fine because the two Love albums are the ones I like.
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    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    The Layla was about the re-mix, but you can polish a turd and it's still a turd. That recording always sounded like there's some kind of grime on the signal that just can't be cleaned up. It doesn't breath.
    Yes, it sounds like the original poor sound quality of the recording is not fixable.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-30-2019 at 00:11.
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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    Yes, it sounds like the original mix it is not fixable.
    I listen to these types of records in the car. It doesn't bother me as much as it does on my home stereo.
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  17. #43
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    The Layla was about the re-mix, but you can polish a turd and it's still a turd. That recording always sounded like there's some kind of grime on the signal that just can't be cleaned up. It doesn't breath.
    A lot of analog mixing imposes these limits, when you mix 2 channels into one you reduce the SNR by 2. These guys were mixing a lot more channels than that. It wasn't uncommon with those British blues-rock bands at the time, like Free and Zep, to sound pretty dirty for the same reasons. But for Layla we also had Eric and Duane playing through the same Fender Champ.... a Class A amp with a single power tube. That amp is a harmonica player's dream... big distortion.

    One thing that makes a difference for remastering is whether you have the original channel tapes or just mix-down tapes... in the latter case you can't go back. I'm guessing that would be the difference in remaster quality between different albums from that period, in fact, you hear of these tape "discoveries" from time to time that lead to new remasters...

    Wiki:

    Clapton originally wrote "Layla" as a ballad, with lyrics describing his unrequited love for Boyd, but the song became a "rocker" when, according to Clapton, Allman composed the song's signature riff.[17][15] With the band assembled and Dowd producing, "Layla" was recorded in its rock form. The recording of the first section consisted of sixteen tracks of which six were guitar tracks: a rhythm track by Clapton, three tracks of harmonies played by Clapton (the main power chord riff on both channels and two harmonies against that main riff, one on the left channel and one on the right channel), a track of solos by Allman (fretted solos with bent notes during the verses and a slide solo during the outro[18]), and one track with both Allman and Clapton playing duplicate solos (the 7-note "signature" riff doubled in two octaves and the 12-note "signature" riff doubled in unison).[15][19] According to Clapton, Allman played the first seven notes of the 12-note "signature" riff fretted and the last five notes on slide in standard tuning.[18] Each player used one input of the same two-input Fender Champ amplifier.[20]
    Last edited by philoctetes; May-30-2019 at 01:07.

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  19. #44
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    “Sgt. Pepper recordings made extensive use of reduction mixing, a technique in which one to four tracks from one recorder are mixed and dubbed down onto a master four-track machine, enabling the engineers to give the group a virtual multitrack studio. EMI's Studer J37 four-track machines were well suited to reduction mixing, as the high quality of the recordings that they produced minimised the increased noise associated with the process.”

    This was done four years earlier than Layla and I don’t hear the same problems from the reduction mixing.
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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    I can't see investing in Blu-ray if the players aren't going to be made anymore. As far as Hendrix, I like the sound of Axis, and Cry Of Love. Never liked the other studio albums as far as sound goes. It works out fine because the two Love albums are the ones I like.
    Huh? You can buy a blu-ray player at Walmart for cheap. It isn't an investment. Electric Ladyland is a revelation in surround. The same goes for Miles Davis's Bitches Brew which has never sounded good until now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    “Sgt. Pepper was done four years earlier than Layla and I don’t hear the same problems from the reduction mixing.
    On the recent blu-ray, they went back to the original stems and rebuilt the whole mix piece by piece- no mix downs. It sounds even better now.
    Last edited by bigshot; May-30-2019 at 08:02.
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