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Thread: Can you hear mastering in MP3s? I can.

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    Senior Member apricissimus's Avatar
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    Do these new masterings really need to be on blu ray? I have a blue ray player, but it's tethered to my living room. A CD would be a more convenient format, and I can easily rip it to a digital file.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    Do these new masterings really need to be on blu ray? I have a blue ray player, but it's tethered to my living room. A CD would be a more convenient format, and I can easily rip it to a digital file.
    Exactly! That's why Blu-ray will be going the way of SACD. To the boneyard.
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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    Do these new masterings really need to be on blu ray?
    The blu-ray has the multichannel mix. The sets come with CDs of the new mix and master in 2 channel too.
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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    The blu-ray has the multichannel mix. The sets come with CDs of the new mix and master in 2 channel too.
    Notice that bigshot approves of multichannel, but says nothing about resolution or sample rate. This is a typical position of this who cannot hear differences in resolution, or understand how it affects audible frequencies. or playback performance.
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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    As long as the data rate is sufficient to achieve audible transparency, that is fine with me. I judge audio fidelity by how it sounds, not by abstract numbers. If no one can discern a difference in a controlled listening test, it's good enough for human ears. More is not always better.

    For more information, see the article linked in my sig file, CD Is All You Need. It has a thorough technical explanation of what matters and what doesn't. Extraordinarily high sampling rates can't improve sound quality, they can only degrade it. If you have any questions after reading the article or if you don't understand parts of it, I'd be happy to explain if I can.

    By the way, the term "resolution" isn't correct here. Higher bitrates and sampling rates do not provide more resolution. They only lower the noise floor and extend the highest frequency limit. A high data rate file has the exact same resolution as a 16/44.1 file within the range that the 16/44.1 covers. Nyquist Theory.
    Last edited by bigshot; May-31-2019 at 17:53.
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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    By the way, the term "resolution" isn't correct here. Higher bitrates and sampling rates do not provide more resolution. They only lower the noise floor and extend the highest frequency limit. A high data rate file has the exact same resolution as a 16/44.1 file within the range that the 16/44.1 covers. Nyquist Theory.
    Then why do tracks recorded at 24 0r 32 kHz sound like crap compared to ones recorded at 44.1? What about aliasing at audible frequencies?
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
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    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Nyquist Theory: Sampling rate is directly related to the highest frequency that can be reproduced. A track recorded at a sampling rate of 24 would have a frequency response of about 20Hz to 10kHz. Human hearing goes from 20Hz to 20kHz. So does 44.1. CD quality sound is able to reproduce every frequency that humans can hear. A sampling rate of 24 would eliminate the top octave of human hearing. A sampling rate of 22 would sound considerably better than the AM radio in your car, but it wouldn't be perfect sound like on a CD.

    Aliasing has nothing to do with sampling rate. Aliasing is used to push the noise floor down further. That is related to bit depth. One of the AES panels linked in my sig has a sample file you can download of aliased and unaliased versions of the same audio track. There isn't any audible difference at normal listening levels. You have to really crank the volume to hear the noise floor of a CD, and odds are you can't even do that because the noise floor of the air conditioning in the studio they recorded in is probably higher than the noise floor of the format itself. Aliasing is overkill for home audio listening. It's not bad to have it, but you probably don't need it.

    You really should click through the CD Is All You Need link in my sig file. If you have trouble understanding it, google Nyquist theory and whatever terms you don't understand. If you want to achieve optimal sound, it's a good idea to know how digital sound reproduction works.
    Last edited by bigshot; Jun-02-2019 at 18:33.
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  8. #53
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    Aliasing has nothing to do with sampling rate. Aliasing is used to push the noise floor down further.
    That's like saying Moiré patterns don't "exist" because they are not solid lines like the two components used to create them. They are an "absence" or the result of interference of two "real" sources. Similar to "undertones."

    This demonstration of difference tones shows how higher frequencies can create lower tones. This is exactly analogous to the way audible "alias frequencies" are created by higher, inaudible sampling frequencies.



    Your parroting of the "Nyquist Theory" sounds dry, clinical, and empty, compared to this explanation which uses real sound to demonstrate these concepts.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jun-12-2019 at 16:45.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
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  9. #54
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Sorry, I was mistaking dither for aliasing. Aliasing filters correct for distortion.
    Last edited by bigshot; Jun-13-2019 at 07:53.
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
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