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Thread: Daniel Barenboim

  1. #31
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    And who is Israel? The music fans? The government? Is Wagner the only great composer who ever lived that had prejudices against Jews or other ethnic groups? If Israel is the democracy they claim to be why should they ban certain composers?
    Israel is a land where many Jews who survived the Holocaust settled. Wagner is a composer that, rightly or wrongly, they associated with Nazism. If they don't want him played that is up to them not us or Barenboim! That happens to be democracy! Surely there are far more important things going on in the world than the music of one man. Wagner's music is probably not allowed in some of the strict Muslim countries like most Western classical music. Are we going to have a discussion about that too?
    Last edited by DavidA; Dec-02-2019 at 18:14.

  2. #32
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Wagner's music is probably not allowed in some of the strict Muslim countries like most Western classical music. Are we going to have a discussion about that too?
    You answered your own question in that those "strict Muslim countries" are not democratic. The people don't have the freedom to chose. An obvious red herring that has nothing to do with this discussion. Nietzsche is associated with Nazism. Is he banned from discussion in Israeli universities? And what about other artists favored by the Nazis? They were okay with Beethoven, Mozart, and Italian opera. There is a slippery slope when so called democratic regimes call for banning the music of classical composers or any other form of artistic expression.
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  4. #33
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    You answered your own question in that those "strict Muslim countries" are not democratic. The people don't have the freedom to chose. An obvious red herring that has nothing to do with this discussion. Nietzsche is associated with Nazism. Is he banned from discussion in Israeli universities? And what about other artists favored by the Nazis? They were okay with Beethoven, Mozart, and Italian opera. There is a slippery slope when so called democratic regimes call for banning the music of classical composers or any other form of artistic expression.
    You answer your own question.The answer is no. But if people do not want to hear certain music performed why should it be? Have they an obligation any more than I have to play music in my house? Just respect the wishes of people. If they don't want to hear a certain composer it's no-one's business but there's.
    Last edited by DavidA; Dec-02-2019 at 22:23.

  5. #34
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    ...But if people do not want to hear certain music performed why should it be? Have they an obligation any more than I have to play music in my house? Just respect the wishes of people. If they don't want to hear a certain composer it's no-one's business but there's.
    If people “do not want to hear certain music performed” then they can stay home or go to a movie or do almost anything except attend the performance. Nobody’s dragging them to the concert hall. In fact, these people want to prevent other people from hearing the music, which is a form of censorship.


  6. #35
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Just respect the wishes of people. If they don't want to hear a certain composer it's no-one's business but there's.
    Exactly my point. But Israeli politicians called for orchestras to boycott Barenboim. Is that necessary?
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

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  8. #36
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    *Yawn*

    I thought we were going to talk about his Bruckner or tenure with the Staatskapelle Berlin.

  9. #37
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    *Yawn*

    I thought we were going to talk about his Bruckner or tenure with the Staatskapelle Berlin.
    Yes, I would have thought there were rather more pressing issues the world was concerned with.

  10. #38
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Yes, I would have thought there were rather more pressing issues the world was concerned with.
    But you came here to argue about Wagner in Israel. Ok, back to Barenboim in the rest of the world...
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

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  11. #39
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    But you came here to argue about Wagner in Israel. Ok, back to Barenboim in the rest of the world...
    Yes but I don't think the world is particularly concerned with what goes on on TC!

  12. #40
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Yes but I don't think the world is particularly concerned with what goes on on TC!
    TC Members 33,824

    World pop 7,748,159,823 and counting.

    So about 0.0000437 of the world's population are members of TC. We have to work on that number.
    "All of Italian opera can be heard in [Bellini's] "Ah! non creda [mirarti]."
    --Renata Scotto in "Scotto, More Than a DIva."

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  14. #41
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Boy, you guys can't be that dense. World as in "classical music world". What else is Barenboim known for! He's a Beethoven pianist and conductor. He's recorded a ton of Bruckner. And he's done Wagner. I think the only recording I have is the Berg Chamber Concerto he did with Boulez. Ashkenazy is another one of those pianist/conductors that never really caught my interest. Has anybody listened to Barenboim's live Beethoven sonata set! There is video on YouTube as well. I'm going listen to some of it.

    I haven't become enough of a Bruckner fan to start collecting. I have the Skrowaczewski set, a few single CDs. I haven't tried any Barenboim.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

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  15. #42
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    Boy, you guys can't be that dense. World as in "classical music world". What else is Barenboim known for! He's a Beethoven pianist and conductor. He's recorded a ton of Bruckner. And he's done Wagner. I think the only recording I have is the Berg Chamber Concerto he did with Boulez. Ashkenazy is another one of those pianist/conductors that never really caught my interest. Has anybody listened to Barenboim's live Beethoven sonata set! There is video on YouTube as well. I'm going listen to some of it.

    I haven't become enough of a Bruckner fan to start collecting. I have the Skrowaczewski set, a few single CDs. I haven't tried any Barenboim.

    Barenboim is known for his unfortunate and inappropriate political speeches in Britain.

  16. #43
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm outta here.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

  17. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    .....If they don't want to hear a certain composer it's no-one's business but there's.
    And they have every right to stay home, go somewhere else, and not hear that music...

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  19. #45
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    Ashkenazy is another one of those pianist/conductors that never really caught my interest.
    Ashkenazy the pianist has never interested me very much, but I think that he's a much better conductor - his Sibelius and Shostakovich recordings are particularly fine, and there's a very strong Mahler 3 on Decca.

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