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Thread: Chest voices

  1. #1
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    Last edited by nina foresti; May-27-2019 at 03:15.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    A sad commentary on what we're missing in singing nowadays. Fully developed, freely produced dramatic voices are an endangered (extinct?) species. Compare Eva Turner with Nina Stemme, the Met's most recent Turandot:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUj4-9n62uA

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    Senior Member ldiat's Avatar
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    this is the same youtube poster that stated Joan Sutherland sounded not good. and knocked Dinia Dimura for her queen of the night. i follow this poster on face book. i posted this poster over in the Opera Thread about Joan.

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    Senior Member ldiat's Avatar
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    here is a new one by the "This is Opera"

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    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    ^^^ Ruffo was awe-inspiring.
    Last edited by Woodduck; May-28-2019 at 02:15.

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  9. #6
    Senior Member BalalaikaBoy's Avatar
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    All the people calling this account a "charlatan" simply don't know what they're talking about. He gives good information and clearly illustrates his points with examples of great singers. Many people comment on his videos about how his suggestions have improved their technique, and no one who was truly a charlatan would have such a vast knowledge of the kinds of hidden gem singers he brings up regularly.

    Like....yeah, I think he's kind of a jerk some of the time, and I certainly don't agree with 100% of what he says, but even then, he manages some quite relevant criticisms even of singers I adore like Joan Sutherland and Elisabeth Schwarzkopf. In addition, he's far more balanced than his less-than-modest tone would have one believe, and is plenty capable of pointing out good things he likes about singers he dislikes, and bad things about singers he greatly admires and respects.

    Personally, I hope his channel succeeds in breathing new life into opera and recreating some of the excitement of the Golden Age for a new audience.

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Tuoksu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalalaikaBoy View Post
    All the people calling this account a "charlatan" simply don't know what they're talking about. He gives good information and clearly illustrates his points with examples of great singers. Many people comment on his videos about how his suggestions have improved their technique, and no one who was truly a charlatan would have such a vast knowledge of the kinds of hidden gem singers he brings up regularly.

    Like....yeah, I think he's kind of a jerk some of the time, and I certainly don't agree with 100% of what he says, but even then, he manages some quite relevant criticisms even of singers I adore like Joan Sutherland and Elisabeth Schwarzkopf. In addition, he's far more balanced than his less-than-modest tone would have one believe, and is plenty capable of pointing out good things he likes about singers he dislikes, and bad things about singers he greatly admires and respects.

    Personally, I hope his channel succeeds in breathing new life into opera and recreating some of the excitement of the Golden Age for a new audience.
    Thank you for saying that. I'm also glad that this channel is kind of buzzing these days and so many people are now talking about it and sharing it and it's changing their perspective. I'm sure if more people did what he's doing the public's standards would start to gradually rise. I was so surprised when I saw the comment section of the video below, so I guess the change is slowly happening.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuoksu View Post
    Thank you for saying that. I'm also glad that this channel is kind of buzzing these days and so many people are now talking about it and sharing it and it's changing their perspective. I'm sure if more people did what he's doing the public's standards would start to gradually rise. I was so surprised when I saw the comment section of the video below, so I guess the change is slowly happening.

    Absolutely stunning and magnificently rendered with plenty of chest voice. Those naysayers have to get some ears.

  13. #9
    Member JoeSaunders's Avatar
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    I haven't watched too much of this channel's back-catalogue because, frankly, these sorts of lecture-style videos bemoaning modernity are very annoying and I definitely do not have the time. But I do err on the side that the guy(s) is/are charlatans/a charlatan.

    Good points:
    - Draws attention to great singers of the past. Lovely, and they usually find good examples.
    - I also find many popular opera singers of today unsatisfactory for a number of reasons.
    - Hurray chest voice, it sounds nice sometimes.

    Bad points:
    - From what I've seen, and correct me if I'm wrong, their argumentative methodology mostly consists of:

    "Here's a **** modern singer: boo! [here's why boo [citation needed]] Now look at all these older recordings: Yay! [here's why yay [citation needed]] Therefore, modern singing technique/teaching is awful and we're right"

    I know there's more commentary added, some of it insightful, but the basic argument is something like that. And I find that to be bad and incomplete argumentation! The selection bias involved in looking through the best of a centuries worth of old recordings whilst ignoring the presumably huge amount of average-quality singers from that same time is obvious. Not factoring in the difference in older recording quality is also daft. And ignoring the areas in opera where it's often supposed that the state of singing is generally quite good, like baroque or Rossini singing, is, again, daft.

    There's a real trend from the clips I've seen on this channel of drawing very strong conclusions when a minimal one will suit much better. One video claimed that modern singing teaching was quackery. But the entire thing consisted of Joyce DiDonato making masterclass students dance around and move while singing, while the captions made snarky comments. Surely a better conclusion, from the evidence presented, is that it's just Joyce being a bit weird? The whole thing reeks of clickbait garbage.

    And, importantly, I say it's 'incomplete' because any substantive arguments like the ones they're making need to be supplemented with an explanation of what, systemically, is causing these changes. Simply saying "singers teach you the wrong way now!" tells us NOTHING about WHY this change has happened. Have the latest generations of teachers (many of whom are/were the very same great opera singers they love to go on about) all miraculously got teaching wrong at the same time? How so? Or is it the institutions? Well if so, how did these bad habits spread, and why now? If someone could link to any of video of theirs where they seriously try to explain the causes of the prevalence of bad opera singing I'd be very grateful. Otherwise it's clear they're just another ranty youtuber who think they've got it all sussed out.

    - I have no idea of this group's singing/teaching credentials. Since the channel is pretty much offering recommendations on how one should sing opera, some sort of credential ought to be the bare minimum! Simply saying that they're 'a group of musicians' should do nothing to reassure anyone that anybody here knows anything.

    - Adding to that, having a youtube channel dedicated to proper singing technique is simply the wrong way of going about things (EDIT: particularly when the commentary on technique mostly revolves around comparing great singers, who are a rare enough bunch to begin with). Singing technique is a very personalised thing, and you need an actual real-life teacher to hit upon the right way of doing things for one's own voice. I wouldn't be surprised if younger singers develop a lot of bad habits because they're trying to be the next Mario Del Monaco or Tebaldi because a youtuber said authoritatively that they like chest voice.

    - A bizarre amount of genuinely good singing is caught in the channel's net as examples of bad singing. This tells me they have no idea what really matters in opera.
    Last edited by JoeSaunders; May-28-2019 at 19:58.

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  15. #10
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    I give "likes" to both BalalaikaBoy and JoeSaunders because my opinion of "This Is Opera" comes down somewhere between them.

    This, on the other hand, does not get a "like":

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuoksu View Post
    .
    Last edited by Woodduck; May-28-2019 at 19:54.

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  17. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    This, on the other hand, does not get a "like":
    A quick visit to your ENT might be of some help to you.

  18. #12
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nina foresti View Post
    A quick visit to your ENT might be of some help to you.
    I would suggest that for Her Nebs.

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  20. #13
    Senior Member howlingfantods's Avatar
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    Do you need a 10 minute video to explain that Zajick isn't as good as Barbieri?

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  22. #14
    Senior Member BalalaikaBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howlingfantods View Post
    Do you need a 10 minute video to explain that Zajick isn't as good as Barbieri?
    given how few people realize this obvious truth....yes :/

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  24. #15
    Senior Member Seattleoperafan's Avatar
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    Except for what he said about La Stupenda ( couldn't watch) I find a lot of his arguments compelling. Those chest voices in the past were so amazing and singing that way never damaged the voice of the singers like you always hear from other singers so often who won't use chest voice.
    Last edited by Seattleoperafan; May-31-2019 at 14:09.

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