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Thread: Four Last Songs, Richard Strauss

  1. #106
    Senior Member NLAdriaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annaw View Post
    ...I can see why one can become allergic to statements that could be interpreted as provocation. I think we have less of that in the opera forum but quite a lot in other subforums. Wagner-related threads are a good example of threads where debate is often initiated by short provocative comments. Of course this was probably not your intention at all but I think in such cases it’s always safer to shortly restate why one thinks this or that way...
    We only share opinions here, nothing more. They are all equally valued.

    There is a habit among certain TC members to label any opposing or just different views as a 'provocation' or 'trolling' and responding by attacking and insulting the opponent, the least of which is framing them as intentional 'trolls' or 'provocateurs'.

    Some people just can't handle any opposition and instead of debating or ignoring, they just unhinge and respond aggressive, shooting from the hip, time after time, as if they are personally under attack, using the excuse that they were provoked or trolled. It is at least significant that this kind of polarizing responses mainly occur with certain composers or conductors, we all know who they are, they are at least all Germanic and pretty dominant/totalitarian characters. There is likely some logic behind all this: admiration, identification. And it probably never stops.

    Who provokes who?

    Just remember this is only a music forum, nothing more.

  2. #107
    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    We only share opinions here, nothing more. They are all equally valued.

    There is a habit among certain TC members to label any opposing or just different views as a 'provocation' or 'trolling' and responding by attacking and insulting the opponent, the least of which is framing them as intentional 'trolls' or 'provocateurs'.

    Some people just can't handle any opposition and instead of debating or ignoring, they just unhinge and respond aggressive, shooting from the hip, time after time, as if they are personally under attack, using the excuse that they were provoked or trolled. It is at least significant that this kind of polarizing responses mainly occur with certain composers or conductors, we all know who they are, they are at least all Germanic and pretty dominant/totalitarian characters. There is likely some logic behind all this: admiration, identification. And it probably never stops.

    Who provokes who?

    Just remember this is only a music forum, nothing more.
    It was just an example - it was foolish of me to even bring such. Accusing someone was certainly not my goal and nor is it my right. I was very knowingly not referring to anyone specific. I’m willing to discuss such matters in different threads, but definitely not in this one.

    I think this is an entirely off-topic discussion I didn’t intend to initiate at all. So, let’s leave it and continue talking about a different Richard and his amazing Four Last Songs. (Actually, I think I’m going to let the more knowledgeable people talk as my interventions, evidently, have some unintentional side-effects .)
    Last edited by annaw; Jul-07-2020 at 14:46.

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  4. #108
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    My apologies to Wkasimer and VitellioScarpia if they feel I was having a pop at them personally. That was not my intention.
    No problem. I didn't think that it was particularly aggressive, and I have a pretty thick skin.

    I am feeling particularly irascible at the moment due to the lockdown and I probably am taking it out on those who have done nothing to deserve it.
    Maybe you should channel that irascibility and go out and tear down a statue or something.

    That's a joke, in case anyone is humor-challenged.

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  6. #109
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    At my age it’s likely something else would tear!
    "...it is said that first your heart sings, then you play. I think if it is not like that, then it is only just combination of notes, isn't it? " - Pandit Nikhil Banerjee, Master of the Sitar.

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  8. #110
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    We only share opinions here, nothing more. They are all equally valued.

    There is a habit among certain TC members to label any opposing or just different views as a 'provocation' or 'trolling' and responding by attacking and insulting the opponent, the least of which is framing them as intentional 'trolls' or 'provocateurs'.

    Some people just can't handle any opposition and instead of debating or ignoring, they just unhinge and respond aggressive, shooting from the hip, time after time, as if they are personally under attack, using the excuse that they were provoked or trolled. It is at least significant that this kind of polarizing responses mainly occur with certain composers or conductors, we all know who they are, they are at least all Germanic and pretty dominant/totalitarian characters. There is likely some logic behind all this: admiration, identification. And it probably never stops.

    Who provokes who?

    Just remember this is only a music forum, nothing more.
    All opinions equally valued? You seem intent on devaluing someone here...

    Your little rant serves no valid purpose in the context of the subject at hand. It's designed purely as a criticism of other people, and since no one here has said or done anything to warrant such an attack, it's entirely irrelevant and gratuitous. That makes it a clear example of provocation - of trolling - an utterly unnecessary disparagement of unnamed "certain TC members," with a clear reference to Wagner ("Germanic and pretty dominant/totalitarian characters" and "we all know who they are") and an implied but still clear reference to me, whose calling out of your Wagner phobia you seem unable to get over.

    I see the game you're playing, Adriaan - anyone can see it, it's painfully obvious - and if you were a bit more self-aware or sensitive you'd be embarrassed by it.

    "Just remember this is only a music forum, nothing more."
    Last edited by Woodduck; Jul-07-2020 at 19:00.

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  10. #111
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    At my age it’s likely something else would tear!
    I know what you mean. It's painful enough at my age just to tear down fallacious arguments and persistent trolling on this forum (see post #106). I'm happy to leave the statues to the young folks.

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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    My apologies to Wkasimer and VitellioScarpia if they feel I was having a pop at them personally. That was not my intention. I am feeling particularly irascible at the moment due to the lockdown and I probably am taking it out on those who have done nothing to deserve it.
    Thank you Barbeblue. I had not intention to offend with my opinion.
    Last edited by VitellioScarpia; Jul-07-2020 at 23:02.

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  14. #113
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsaraslondon View Post
    I see elsewhere that you are a fan of Korngold. Have you heard this?



    Apologies to others for going off topic, but this really is ravishing singing. I've never heard it done better, though wksimer would probably disagree
    How about we all just agree: If you don't like this clip, you don't like Schwarzkopf. Period.
    Alan

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  16. #114
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amfortas View Post
    How about we all just agree: If you don't like this clip, you don't like Schwarzkopf. Period.
    She had admirable facial bones too, here visible from two angles. But then beauty is in the eye of...

  17. #115
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    She had admirable facial bones too, here visible from two angles. But then beauty is in the eye of...
    "De gustibus non est disputandum": There's no arguing with indigestion.
    Alan

  18. #116
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    She always had, imho, a very aristocratic look which served her well when singing someone like the Marschallin
    "...it is said that first your heart sings, then you play. I think if it is not like that, then it is only just combination of notes, isn't it? " - Pandit Nikhil Banerjee, Master of the Sitar.

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