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Thread: Increasing / Decreasing intervals

  1. #46
    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    .............I'm all ears - or all eyes, depending on whether we're listening to the music or looking at it. If we do both at once, will our brains explode?
    Imagine how composers feel Wooduck, are our brains totally addled? - no (well, ok, maybe a little). In the day to day of CP composing, the aug. unison is not an issue and I doubt it is theoretically too. One can understand its application in bitonal spelling and dodecaphony however, I'd like to see a non ambiguous aug.unison (simultaneously too) in a CP academic context.
    Would anyone consider a blue note (say a c natural over a c sharp in an A7 harmony) as an example?...that's as close as I can get so far to such a thing in common use.
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jun-21-2019 at 07:44.

  2. #47
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    There is nothing problematic about having two alternative ways of describing the interval in question. One way refers to its sound - a movement by a semitone - and the other to its functional notation - an augmented unison. Whether we like the terms or not, their use would seem to have been clarified. Is there anything more to say about this?
    Yes, just make damn sure you call it by the right name.
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  3. #48
    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    This discussion seems to have surpassed the "dancing angels on pinheads" level of superfluousness.

    There is nothing problematic about having two alternative ways of describing the interval in question. One way refers to its sound - a movement by a semitone - and the other to its functional notation - an augmented unison. Whether we like the terms or not, their use would seem to have been clarified. Is there anything more to say about this?

    I'm all ears - or all eyes, depending on whether we're listening to the music or looking at it. If we do both at once, will our brains explode?
    No, there is nothing more to say about the issue raised in the OP. You've summarized it succinctly. I summarized it with similar clarity pages ago.

    Mikeh and I are now on whether augmented unisons have an aural reality distinguishing them from minor 2nds. I gave an example where I think the difference can readily be heard, if one listens from 8:15 to 8:45 in this video. The Gb at 8:31, I suggested, is an augmented unison above the F that precedes and follows it, even though it is notated as a minor 2nd.



    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Yes, just make damn sure you call it by the right name.
    As the OP stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Classicum View Post
    This is a question of terminology.
    So, yes, the whole point of the thread, which everyone but you seems to understand, is about finding the right names.
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Jun-21-2019 at 13:37.

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  4. #49
    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast View Post
    Mikeh and I are now on whether augmented unisons have an aural reality distinguishing them from minor 2nds. I gave an example where I think the difference can readily be heard, if one listens from 8:15 to 8:45 in this video. The Gb at 8:31, I suggested, is an augmented unison above the F that precedes and follows it, even though it is notated as a minor 2nd.



    I found it especially interesting from b28 cf. Compound aug. unisons or just accented (appoggiatura!) enharmonic maj7ths resolving to the flattened 7ths? Some chords have the feel of that bluesy A7 chord I mentioned above with the major and flattened 3rd and most notable (for me at least) is that they all have simultaneity, which may not absolutely essential, but is a surely a plus for an interval in the dock..
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jun-21-2019 at 16:48.

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    See Zarlino's writing for augmented and diminished unisons and similar . But this was way before 12 equal temperament. Honestly, most of these questions and terminology make no sense without learning the deeper meantone theory (and are almost useless in general, if we just stick to 12 equal where atonal integer notation is way superior musical system).
    Btw, Vicentino used such modulations - I guess for the untrained ears some of the chords change colour slightly, not really modulate (there are some youtube recordings, I think they recorded the singers separately, then retuned to 31 equal, then mixed them together)

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  7. #51
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast View Post
    So, yes, the whole point of the thread, which everyone but you seems to understand, is about finding the right names.
    I love and respect you, too, Edward.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jun-24-2019 at 14:45.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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