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Thread: What is PRaT?

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    Default What is PRaT?

    And is it a good thing?

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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    It's audiophile BS.
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
    AES Damn Lies Seminar: http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

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    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    "Pace, Rhythm and Timing. Defining it, as with most audiophile terms, is more or less an exercise in futility." It's discussed on Audiogon.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; Jun-16-2019 at 10:47.
    "That's all Folks!"

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    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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    Well there audibly is a big difference between a NAIM amp and a Sugden amp I think! One has PRaT and one doesn’t?

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    It's audiophile BS.
    A typical bigshot reply. No fun at all, no disagreeing with him.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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    Audiophiles often misattribute musical qualities to the electronics. Pace, Rhythm and Timing are all things that are created by musicians- specifically drummers. You can't describe an amp as sounding "musical". Audio equipment just reproduces sound with more or less fidelity to the original signal. PRaT is a meaningless term when it comes to home audio equipment. It's one of those vague flowery descriptions used to describe subjective experiences.
    Last edited by bigshot; Jun-16-2019 at 18:40.
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
    AES Damn Lies Seminar: http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    But the cables, don't forget the cables
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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    I have used NAIM for many years, not because of PRaT, which I never have heard of, but because I think NAIM produces a neutral and well defined sound.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    Audiophiles often misattribute musical qualities to the electronics.
    The music is secondary for equipment fanatics. It's only a vehicle for listening to their over-priced gear.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

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    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Well there audibly is a big difference between a NAIM amp and a Sugden amp I think! One has PRaT and one doesn’t?
    Thank you for pointing this out. Not all amps are the same and the differences need to be pointed out more rather than anyone perpetuating the falsehood that there’s relatively no difference between them. All amps have a signature sound which can be verified through personal experience and ownership. It’s time to put a stop to the generalities about amps or anything else. I have seen more misleading information related to electronic equipment on this forum than on all the other forums combined.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; Jun-17-2019 at 06:57.
    "That's all Folks!"

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    Thank you for pointing this out. Not all amps are the same and the differences need to be pointed out more rather than anyone perpetuating the falsehood that there’s relatively no difference between them. All amps have a signature sound which can be verified through personal experience and ownership. It’s time to put a stop to the generalities about amps or anything else. I have seen more misleading advice related to electronic equipment on this forum from one particular individual more than all the other forums combined.
    Really! I wish I had Mandryka's amp, instead of my crummy Harmon-Kardon.

    Quote Originally Posted by EddieRUKiddingVarese View Post
    But the cables, don't forget the cables!


    As far a cables go, if you've ever had an intermittent signal caused by a cheap molded Chinese cable, and have to go in the back to locate it, then you will understand the importance of good cables. Or some idiot using a regular RCA cable as a SPDIF digital out, in a recording studio, no doubt!
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jun-17-2019 at 04:55.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    All amps have a signature sound which can be verified through personal experience and ownership.
    Why is it that those differences disappear with controlled listening tests, even with people who are convinced that differences exist? Did you read the Stereo Review article I posted earlier?
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
    AES Damn Lies Seminar: http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    I don't think that's what Eddie meant by the cable remark. Obviously nobody with decent equipment is going buy cheap zip cord at Walmart. But some of this esoteric audiophile gear is a rip off. And if you're beyond a certain age you'll never hear the difference anyway.

    Back in the day before the internet killed the local market, we had a couple "high end" audio stores in town. I used to laugh because the brands would move around among these different retailers and when a certain product was in their store it was "the best" and the other dealer's stuff was inferior until the brands switched houses. Then it was a reverse sales pitch.
    Last edited by starthrower; Jun-17-2019 at 13:36.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    I don't think that's what Eddie meant by the cable remark. Obviously nobody with decent equipment is going buy cheap zip cord at Walmart. But some of this esoteric audiophile gear is a rip off. And if you're beyond a certain age you'll never hear the difference anyway.

    Back in the day before the internet killed the local market, we had a couple "high end" audio stores in town. I used to laugh because the brands would move around among these different retailers and when a certain product was in their store it was "the best" and the other dealer's stuff was inferior until the brands switched houses. Then it was a reverse sales pitch.
    Well, I still believe in quality. My Denon 3901 DVD player sounds very good, better than the cheap $20 Sony player I had.

    Rick Beato posted a good discussion about "aging ears," and concluded that KNOWLEDGE about sound is more important. These older producers would give the mix to a youngster, just to make sure they weren't missing anything, but they weren't.

    I think a good, rock solid power supply is VERY important as well.
    The voltage to my house was messed up for over two years, with frequent breaker-blows and low voltage fluctuating between 118-120 volts. A good electrician finally discovered the problem: the voltage coming into the house from the pole went through two cheap aluminum wires, used in the 1970s to save money. One of the stranded wires had been burnt by previous spikes, and was hanging on by literally ONE STRAND. He cut it, re-spliced it, and now my house voltage is a steady 122 volts! Everything works better: appliances, fans, my stereo...
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jun-17-2019 at 16:02.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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