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Thread: Klemperer vs Furtwängler

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triplets View Post
    Klemperer’s early recordings are eye openers in that they are swifter and more incisive than his older self

    The problem with the very slow ones for me isn’t the slowness per se, it’s that I can sense that the singers don’t feel comfortable. A prime example is Cosi fan Tutte, which has a truly stellar cast, maybe the best lineup ever for that opera, and Klemperer has ideas which are original and inspired.

    He can do it successfully with just his own orchestra to manage, like the Philharmonia Mahler 7 - which is mad really but nevertheless worth hearing. Once.

    The more I listen to Klemperer the more I think that the place he was at his most consistently great is, bizarrely, in Mozart! I wonder what the people here think of Furtwangler’s Mozart - the late Gran Partita for example, which I’ve been listening to this afternoon, with mixed feelings

    3C7FD390-D2F5-45BD-9B60-D423F3A9A1C5.jpeg
    Last edited by Mandryka; Jun-30-2019 at 14:26.

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    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Klemperer's Mozart is amazing. I would say that's where he's at his best too. One of these days I'll get that EMI Klemperer box set with all those Mozart symphonies.

  3. #33
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    I love Furtwangler’s gran partita. He was best in Symphony No 40 and Don Giovanni, both my favorite versions of those works. His Haydn 88 is also excellent
    Last edited by Brahmsianhorn; Jun-30-2019 at 16:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmsianhorn View Post
    I love Furtwangler’s gran partita.
    Yes I'm sure you do.

    Just listening again, not to the emi transfer in the pic I posted but to Ward Marston’s on Naxos, I’d say it’s quite a revelation, much better. Thanks for prompting me to investigate the performance a bit more.
    Last edited by Mandryka; Jun-30-2019 at 18:06.

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    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    Regarding Klemperer's Mozart, I recommend the Klemperer/Civil Horn Concerti. Definitely up there with the classic Karajan/Brain recording which is anything but slick.

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    I don't think it's a viable comparison because of recording technology, as Paul Best said back in post #2.

    The Furtwangler I'm interested in supposedly had bombs going off in the background. Can someone identify that one?
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jun-30-2019 at 21:48.

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    deleted post...
    Last edited by premont; Jun-30-2019 at 23:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    Regarding Klemperer's Mozart, I recommend the Klemperer/Civil Horn Concerti. Definitely up there with the classic Karajan/Brain recording which is anything but slick.
    Precisely this one stands for me as the best Mozart recording he made of the ones, I have heard, which doesn't include the Gran Partita or the operas.. But generally I think he was best in Beethoven and Brahms. I would even like to draw attention to his monumental recordings of Tchaikovsky's 4th, 5th and 6th symphony as well Dvorak's 9th.
    Last edited by premont; Jun-30-2019 at 23:05.

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  11. #39
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    I do think it important to point out that I can’t think of a single recording of a particular piece where I prefer the best available Klemperer version to the best available Furtwangler. Not a single case. I find that Furtwangler probes deeper and fleshes more out of the score. But of course Furt also did not record Mahler, which is my favorite of Klemperer’s repertoire.

    That’s not to say I don’t esteem Klemperer highly. His live Beethoven recordings on Testament are fantastic. But I still turn to live Furtwangler on Tahra or Music & Arts for the deeper experience. I prefer both to either Toscanini or Karajan.

    I don’t like Klemperer’s Brahms quite as much. I could do with more flexibility. Here he is more a peer of Karajan. But Furtwangler is on another level.

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  13. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmsianhorn View Post
    I love Furtwangler’s gran partita. He was best in Symphony No 40 and Don Giovanni, both my favorite versions of those works. His Haydn 88 is also excellent
    Furtwangler in Mozart's operas?
    I might say, with some slight reservations, the finest on record.

    I doubt his sym 40 passes Walter/Columbia's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manxfeeder View Post
    I respect your opinion, but Beethoven, Symphony No. 3, 10/28/39, should not be forgotten.
    It was a very good performance of the 3rd.
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have." Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post

    I doubt his sym 40 passes Walter/Columbia's.

    Well I am not always right.
    Neither completely wrong.
    The sound is poor, the orch rides a bit rough shop over some more delicate passages.
    Its too aggressive for me to like it.
    Yet if we had this in DD sound,,,better, still too aggressive.

    Walter's Columbia orch knows how to finely chisel the lines with more precision and finesse.

    Mozart requires above all, Finesse-ness




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    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Seems near unanimous: Klemperer was never the conductor that Furtwängler was. This raises a further question, is Klemperer overrated? Is he undeserving of his position in the pantheon of immortal conductors? Do people mistake his sludgy tempi for solemnity or profundity, when in reality he's just sticking to the formula (à la Karajan...?)...? Are these uninformed questions an insult to poor Klemperer's legacy, or am I only speaking thoughts that we've all been thinking, but are too afraid to ask?

    I don't have the answers to these questions...

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    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamencosketches View Post
    Seems near unanimous: Klemperer was never the conductor that Furtwängler was. This raises a further question, is Klemperer overrated? Is he undeserving of his position in the pantheon of immortal conductors? Do people mistake his sludgy tempi for solemnity or profundity, when in reality he's just sticking to the formula (à la Karajan...?)...? Are these uninformed questions an insult to poor Klemperer's legacy, or am I only speaking thoughts that we've all been thinking, but are too afraid to ask?

    I don't have the answers to these questions...
    I don't know either. I just know that I like his Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms.

  18. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamencosketches View Post
    Seems near unanimous: Klemperer was never the conductor that Furtwängler was. This raises a further question, is Klemperer overrated? Is he undeserving of his position in the pantheon of immortal conductors? Do people mistake his sludgy tempi for solemnity or profundity, when in reality he's just sticking to the formula (à la Karajan...?)...? Are these uninformed questions an insult to poor Klemperer's legacy, or am I only speaking thoughts that we've all been thinking, but are too afraid to ask?

    I don't have the answers to these questions
    ...
    There are no answers to those questions, it is all personal opinion subject to change without notice.

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