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Thread: To the Wagner addicts:

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    Default To the Wagner addicts:

    If you're a former addict, of which I know there are many, where did you go after your blurred obsession with Wagner?

    I mean this sincerely and out of curiosity, I'm not interested in litigating the relative fandom of composers or whether Wagner had 'something wrong' with him. I mean plainly where did former Wagner obsessors go afterward?

    For instance when I joined this forum I listened to all sorts, mostly late baroque through Romantic, and heavily based on what I played when I was younger. For the last couple of years it's just Wagner I listen to. Yes there's occasional late Beethoven, Brahms chamber, Bach organ or piano, or Romantic piano - especially at work. But beyond that I just listen to Wagner, watch it, etc.

    So for those ladies and gents who experienced Wagner like this in their 20s, 30s, 40s or even later, what came next?
    Last edited by bz3; Jun-30-2019 at 01:51.

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    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    So for those ladies and gents who experienced Wagner like this in their 20s, 30s, 40s or even later, what came next?

    I had an uncle who was a Wagner addict until he died. I don't know why you assume that your love affair with Wagner's music will recede. However, if it does, you will naturally gravitate to a particular direction/source. My advice is that you stop thinking about it and let nature take its course.

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    Senior Member Rogerx's Avatar
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    Another Wagner thread

    see Wagner fans......why do you like Wagner?
    Last edited by Rogerx; Jun-30-2019 at 05:12.

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    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    where did you go after your blurred obsession with Wagner?
    blurred? does the composer's music even allow that? Der Ring for example is perfectly clear about things, with all the leitmotifs being perfectly in line with its text, so no ambiguity left for anyone to wonder about the message & the meaning of it.

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    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    I had a spell on Wagner but I have found other sorts of opera far more enjoyable to listen to. Handel operas for example. I was also put off Wagner by some of the people on TC who seemed to me to take him too seriously for my taste and appeared to think everyone should. For me opera is a hobby not to be taken too seriously. So Wagner on the back burner for the time being. Not suggesting this is true for everyone, of course, but you've asked people for their experience. If you're looking for something post-Wagner try the pure air of Handel.
    Last edited by DavidA; Jun-30-2019 at 10:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    blurred? does the composer's music even allow that? Der Ring for example is perfectly clear about things, with all the leitmotifs being perfectly in line with its text, so no ambiguity left for anyone to wonder about the message & the meaning of it.
    Mate this is such a bad take ahahahah

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    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    Nothing can compare, but when I listen to something else it has to have
    very good orchestral music.
    If I am not listening to Wagner it's usually Strauss.

    I don't care for baroque opera. The recitative drives me nutty and they all sound the same after a while.
    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

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    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itullian View Post
    Nothing can compare, but when I listen to something else it has to have
    very good orchestral music.
    If I am not listening to Wagner it's usually Strauss.

    I don't care for baroque opera. The recitative drives me nutty and they all sound the same after a while.
    We had a thread idea on that.
    "All of Italian opera can be heard in [Bellini's] "Ah! non creda [mirarti]."
    --Renata Scotto in "Scotto, More Than a DIva."

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Classical. CPE, Mozart, Haydn et. al. The taste and restraint of this period can restore some sanity to the Wagner addict. Take twice per day, mornings and evenings.
    Last edited by Couchie; Jun-30-2019 at 21:58.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    I had a spell on Wagner but I have found other sorts of opera far more enjoyable to listen to. Handel operas for example. I was also put off Wagner by some of the people on TC who seemed to me to take him too seriously for my taste and appeared to think everyone should. For me opera is a hobby not to be taken too seriously. So Wagner on the back burner for the time being. Not suggesting this is true for everyone, of course, but you've asked people for their experience. If you're looking for something post-Wagner try the pure air of Handel.
    The OP is addressed to "Wagner addicts," not to people who are over-eager to say that they find other opera far more enjoyable. Nobody cares what you find more enjoyable. But any mention of Wagner is an excuse for you to flounce in and announce that other people take Wagner too seriously "for your taste."

    The taste your constant anti-Wagner ranting leaves is a bad taste.

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    The OP is addressed to "Wagner addicts," not to people who are over-eager to say that they find other opera far more enjoyable. Nobody cares what you find more enjoyable. But any mention of Wagner is an excuse for you to flounce in and announce that other people take Wagner too seriously "for your taste."

    The taste your constant anti-Wagner ranting leaves is a bad taste.
    DavidA has a seriously masochistic Wagner-obsession himself.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    DavidA has a seriously masochistic Wagner-obsession himself.
    Do you think he's a closet case? Was he molested by a beret as a child?

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    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    DavidA has a seriously masochistic Wagner-obsession himself.
    You guys really crack me up! I can assure you like other misguided comments from this quarter, DavidA has no masochistic Wagner-obsession. He leaves that dubious pleasure to others!

    It would also appear now that even answering the question of the OP: 'If you're a former addict, of which I know there are many, where did you go after your blurred obsession with Wagner?' in an honest fashion now upsets some people. You just can't win. Never mind!
    Last edited by DavidA; Jul-01-2019 at 06:11.

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  23. #14
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    You guys really crack me up! I can assure you like other misguided comments from this quarter, DavidA has no masochistic Wagner-obsession. He leaves that dubious pleasure to others!

    It would also appear now that even answering the question of the OP: 'If you're a former addict, of which I know there are many, where did you go after your blurred obsession with Wagner?' in an honest fashion now upsets some people. You just can't win. Never mind!
    It is not credible that you ever had an "addiction" to Wagner. But you do clearly have an addiction, continuing for six or more years now, to using any and every Wagner discussion to make your dislike of him and his admirers known, as if you imagined us all permanently in a state of anticipation, waiting to hear the same unprofitable stuff you've said all the other times when you couldn't resist crashing the party.

    An "addiction" to a composer's music is at least a positive obsession. An addiction to putting a composer down in the presence of people who enjoy him is a negative obsession. It's also rather rude. But maybe that's the point...

    There are several other people on this forum who exhibit this same pattern of behavior: they just can't resist disparaging some composer or other right in the faces of people who enjoy him, and doing it repeatedly, knowing the effect it will have. They all rationalize it differently, but they are all rightly regarded as pests. If we could give "dislikes" here, this type would be a prime target. As it is, we can only "like" those who point out what the comments of such people are really worth.

    If you actually were, as you (unbelievably) claim, a former Wagner addict who's been "put off Wagner by some of the people on TC who seemed to to take him too seriously for [your] taste and appeared to think everyone should," that's a rather sad confession. You should learn to rely on your own judgment and ignore people with whose tastes you don't agree. But you should also learn that people are not interested in being told over and over again that the thing they're seriously interested in is not to be taken seriously. You know perfectly well that Wagner's works have been the subject of serious study since his own time. Some of us here have engaged in such study, and even those who haven't may be serious listeners who enjoy looking beneath the surface of the operas. There are many people here for whom Wagner's works have interesting things to say and are not mere "entertainment." If that's all they are to you, then why not just go and be "entertained"? No one here is entertained having to listen to you broadcast interminably the limits of your appreciation.
    Last edited by Woodduck; Jul-01-2019 at 16:43.

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    After I heard Wagner, it was obvious to me where to go afterwards: to Strauss (Elektra, Salome, Metamprphosen), then on to Schoenberg's post-Romantic works like Pelleas, Verklart, The Book of the Hanging Gardens, Erwartung, then to Berg's operas (Wozzeck, Lulu). I was just following a historical path, and I'm glad to say that I'm proud to be a part of this inevitable march into the future of music.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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