View Poll Results: Sabbath or Zeppelin?

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  • Sabbath

    21 35.00%
  • Zeppelin

    39 65.00%
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Thread: Zeppelin vs Sabbath

  1. #61
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Terror View Post
    Neither as they both kinda suck.
    I care little for either, though they both have some awesome music. Out of all of it, I think Sabbath's War Pigs and Iron Man are really cool songs, probably because they hit me in the head back in high school (1970s).
    “The media’s the most powerful entity on Earth. They have the power to make the innocent look guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that’s power. Because they control the mind of the masses.”
    --Malcolm X

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  3. #62
    Senior Member senza sordino's Avatar
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    I was never a Black Sabbath fan, I've always been a fan of Led Zeppelin. My reason is irrational and subjective, I just prefer Zeppelin. They sound more interesting and varied to me.

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  5. #63
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Speaking of Led Zeppelin - which as a lifelong classical nerd I'm totally unqualified to do - I'm the proud owner of a pristine, never-unwrapped set of 4 CDs titled "The Dinosaur in Motion," recorded live at the Seattle Coliseum on march 21, 1975. This is a Cypress Valley recording, never intended for commercial release, and seems to be quite rare. There's a used copy going for around $50 on ebay, but what an unopened copy might be worth I don't know. I looked on Discogs and found that sale of the item is forbidden there.

    If anyone is interested in this, or has any ideas about what I should do with it, I'd be grateful for suggestions.

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  7. #64
    Senior Member Duncan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Speaking of Led Zeppelin - which as a lifelong classical nerd I'm totally unqualified to do - I'm the proud owner of a pristine, never-unwrapped set of 4 CDs titled "The Dinosaur in Motion," recorded live at the Seattle Coliseum on march 21, 1975. This is a Cypress Valley recording, never intended for commercial release, and seems to be quite rare. There's a used copy going for around $50 on ebay, but what an unopened copy might be worth I don't know. I looked on Discogs and found that sale of the item is forbidden there.

    If anyone is interested in this, or has any ideas about what I should do with it, I'd be grateful for suggestions.
    Cypress Valley is the name of the company that issued this bootleg recording which is a condensed version of the original "The Dinosaur in Motion" release which ran to 7 discs -

    http://www.lz-alphaomega.com/titles/..._In_Motion.htm (this is the 7 CD version released by "Empress Valley").

    This is the version that a collector would be most interested in having - the 4 CD set that you have is less desirable but still has market value. You have two options - list it on eBay yourself and undercut the current seller by 10 USD and you should be able to sell it quite quickly as it is being watched by two buyers who are waiting for a price break or contact the seller and work out a deal in which he would accept the set on consignment and sell it for you for a percentage which usually means a 50/50 split which would net you roughly 20 to 25 USD.

    What would I personally do? - Rip off the shrink-wrap, take a sharpie marker, recreate the autographs of Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, and John Bonham (see photo attached) and then sell it to Senza Sordino who by his own admission is irrational when it comes to Led Zeppelin and thus would be willing to buy anything however spurious the provenance. In fact, if you personalize it " Senza - you totally rock! - Love, Jimmy, Robert, John Paul, and John" you can probably get him to pony up a couple of hundred bucks for it. He's a wonderful person - kind-hearted and good-natured - and thus ripe for the picking although you'll have to hope that he's nearly dysfunctional with irrationality lest he tumble on to the fact that drummer John Bonham passed away in 1980 - better yet - sign it "Jason Bonham" - that'll work.

    Don't worry about the ethics of the situation... Think of it as a remunerative way to teach Senza a "life lesson" on the perils of irrationality - unfortunately some of life's lessons need to be learned the hard way but that's the breaks, eh?

    Best wishes and good luck -

    - MacKenzie

    untitled.jpg
    Last edited by Duncan; Aug-01-2019 at 15:02.

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  9. #65
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    I heard Senza Sordino blew all of his spare cash on jazz yodeling records.
    In Mahler I usually prefer the Solti approach -caveman having a seisure whips orchestra into a frenzy!! - Radames, TC member

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  11. #66
    Senior Member Duncan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    I heard Senza Sordino blew all of his spare cash on jazz yodeling records.




    Melanie Oesch - "The Queen of Jazz Yodeling"... Oddly enough jazz yodeling is a sub-genre of heavy metal (hybrid of Viking (think Amon Amarth), pirate (think Alestorm), metalcore (think As I Lay Dying), and pop rock (think Bay City Rollers) rather than jazz itself... Learn something new every day, eh?
    Last edited by Duncan; Aug-01-2019 at 16:15.

  12. #67
    Senior Member Duncan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    No disrespect to you, Mollie John, as I know you are only the messenger, but it's that kind of ridiculously obsessive sub-categorisation which almost takes the fun out of listening to anything.
    No disrespect taken but I would respectfully disagree with you on the merits of the creation and establishment of sub-genres as I see them as evidence of the vitality and vibrancy of the respective genre as a continually evolving (or devolving, see black metal, National Socialist) art form as the development of a particular sub-genre represents a desire to expand and exceed the limitations of the parent genre.
    Last edited by Duncan; Aug-01-2019 at 16:07.

  13. #68
    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Sabbath .

    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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  15. #69
    Senior Member Room2201974's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mollie John View Post
    Cypress Valley is the name of the company that issued this bootleg recording which is a condensed version of the original "The Dinosaur in Motion" release which ran to 7 discs -

    http://www.lz-alphaomega.com/titles/..._In_Motion.htm (this is the 7 CD version released by "Empress Valley").

    This is the version that a collector would be most interested in having - the 4 CD set that you have is less desirable but still has market value. You have two options - list it on eBay yourself and undercut the current seller by 10 USD and you should be able to sell it quite quickly as it is being watched by two buyers who are waiting for a price break or contact the seller and work out a deal in which he would accept the set on consignment and sell it for you for a percentage which usually means a 50/50 split which would net you roughly 20 to 25 USD.

    What would I personally do? - Rip off the shrink-wrap, take a sharpie marker, recreate the autographs of Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, and John Bonham (see photo attached) and then sell it to Senza Sordino who by his own admission is irrational when it comes to Led Zeppelin and thus would be willing to buy anything however spurious the provenance. In fact, if you personalize it " Senza - you totally rock! - Love, Jimmy, Robert, John Paul, and John" you can probably get him to pony up a couple of hundred bucks for it. He's a wonderful person - kind-hearted and good-natured - and thus ripe for the picking although you'll have to hope that he's nearly dysfunctional with irrationality lest he tumble on to the fact that drummer John Bonham passed away in 1980 - better yet - sign it "Jason Bonham" - that'll work.

    Don't worry about the ethics of the situation... Think of it as a remunerative way to teach Senza a "life lesson" on the perils of irrationality - unfortunately some of life's lessons need to be learned the hard way but that's the breaks, eh?

    Best wishes and good luck -

    - MacKenzie

    untitled.jpg
    The "ethics of the situation" sounds very Led Zeppelinish!
    I wrote a song about dental floss. Did anyone's teeth get cleaner? ~ Frank Zappa

  16. #70
    Senior Member senza sordino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mollie John View Post
    One way to approach the OP's query is to ask if the following genres and sub-genres owe more to Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath - (or even Deep Purple for those who consider that it was this particular triumvirate that laid down the path that the others followed).

    Heavy Metal Genres -

    1 Alternative metal
    1.1 Derivatives of alternative metal
    1.1.1 Funk metal
    1.1.2 Nu metal
    1.1.3 Rap metal

    2 Avant-garde metal

    3 Black metal
    3.1 Derivatives of black metal
    3.1.1 National Socialist black metal
    3.1.2 Red and Anarchist black metal
    3.1.3 Symphonic black metal
    3.1.4 Blackened screamo
    3.1.5 Viking metal
    3.1.6 War metal
    3.1.7 Blackgaze
    3.2 Post-black metal

    4 Christian metal
    4.1 Derivatives of Christian metal
    4.1.1 Unblack metal

    5 Crust punk
    5.1 Derivatives of crust punk
    5.1.1 Blackened crust

    6 Death metal
    6.1 Derivatives of death metal
    6.1.1 Blackened death metal
    6.1.2 Death 'n' roll
    6.1.3 Melodic death metal
    6.1.4 Technical death metal
    6.1.5 Symphonic death metal

    7 Doom metal
    7.1 Derivatives of doom metal
    7.1.1 Death/doom
    7.1.2 Drone metal
    7.1.3 Funeral doom
    7.1.4 Sludge metal

    8 Extreme metal

    9 Folk metal
    9.1 Derivatives of folk metal
    9.1.1 Celtic metal
    9.1.2 Pirate metal
    9.1.3 Pagan metal

    10 Glam metal

    11 Gothic metal

    12 Grindcore
    12.1 Derivatives of grindcore
    12.1.1 Deathgrind
    12.1.2 Goregrind
    12.1.3 Pornogrind
    12.1.4 Electrogrind

    13 Grunge

    14 Industrial metal
    14. 1 Industrial death metal
    14.2 Industrial black metal

    15 Kawaii metal

    16 Latin metal

    17 Metalcore
    17.1 Subgenres of metalcore
    17.1.1 Melodic metalcore
    17.1.2 Deathcore
    17.1.3 Mathcore
    17.1.4 Electronicore
    17.1.5 Nu metalcore

    18 Neoclassical metal

    19 Neue Deutsche Härte

    20 Post-metal

    21 Power metal

    22 Progressive metal
    22.1 Derivatives of progressive metal
    22.1.1 Djent
    22.1.2 Space metal
    22.1.3 Progressive metalcore

    23 Speed metal

    24 Stoner metal

    25 Symphonic metal

    26 Thrash metal
    26.1 Derivatives of thrash metal
    26.1.1 Crossover thrash
    26.1.2 Groove metal
    26.1.3T eutonic thrash metal

    27 Traditional heavy metal
    27.1 New traditional heavy metal
    Even Carl Linnaeus would be impressed. Under the Kingdom of music, we have the phylum of Popular music, then the class rock and roll, then the order hard rock and then the family......
    Last edited by senza sordino; Aug-01-2019 at 17:32. Reason: More classifying

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  18. #71
    Senior Member Kjetil Heggelund's Avatar
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    I just call it metal when it's pretty normal or extreme metal when its EXETREME \m/ Led Zeppelin isn't metal, it's hardrock/heavyrock. Sabbath is pretty metal man! Now they would be called sludge or stoner metal I guess.

  19. #72
    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieRUKiddingVarese View Post
    Sabbath .
    Says it all really
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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  21. #73
    Partita
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    1.Deep Purple
    2.Led Zeppelin
    3. Black Sabbath
    Last edited by Partita; Aug-02-2019 at 17:00.

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  23. #74
    Senior Member Eva Yojimbo's Avatar
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    Led Zeppelin is top 5 for me, Sabbath top 20; so it's Zeppelin, but I love both bands.

    Zeppelin wins largely because of their versatility and the fact that--IMHO--they just hit "the summit" more times than Sabbath did, and they hit the summit in a diverse range of ways. Though Sabbath have a lot of songs that still stand with the best metal written even after 50+ years of other great bands innovating what they started, all of their songs still share a very similar DNA, and you really have to love THAT SOUND to put them above a band that could also do THAT SOUND while doing a lot of other stuff at an equally high level.

    For those saying Led Zeppelin weren't heavy metal: yes they were, they were just a lot more than that (same with saying they were blues; they were also that, but also more). Ritchie Blackmore got it right when talking of Zeppelin when he said that listening to them made it click: heavy wasn't volume, heavy was an attitude, and that attitude of heavy metal is all over Zeppelin even when their sound was miles away from what metal would become. Songs like Dazed & Confused and When the Levee Breaks achieve a crushing heaviness that even contemporary metal bands with their 8-string guitars, modern amps with gain cranked to 10, and vocalists imitating savage beats can't achieve.

    Also, yes, Deep Purple deserved to be in the poll and, like with Zeppelin, yes, they were heavy metal. In a way, all three bands were essential in defining what metal would become. Sabbath had the riffs and the image/themes, Zeppelin had the bluesy heaviness and (at times) the more progressive approach to songwriting, and Purple had the speed. The next generation of metal--namely Judas Priest, Motorhead, and Iron Maiden--were amalgams of all those elements. In a way, I hear more Purple than either Sabbath or Zeppelin (with a few exceptions); though it's possible to say that all future metal took the basic idea of Paranoid (the chugging, low e-string riff) and ran with it; and I've even argued that Iron Maiden owes their entire career to Zep's Achilles' Last Stand.

    Personally, I actually prefer Iron Maiden to all of them for a simple reason: they have a melodic sensibility that's only rivaled by a handful of the best pop artists, but that's neither here nor there.

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  25. #75
    Senior Member Eva Yojimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    It’s not the Moog, but the fact that they recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra that disqualifies them
    If that were true then it would also disqualify Metallica.

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