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Thread: RIP David Koch

  1. #16
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Am I alone in respecting both Soros and Koch? Both advocated policies that are within the range of reasonable debate in a civil society. What sucks is now differences in opinions about policy have become pathologized.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMike View Post
    Every large company pollutes. They have the right to their opinions.

    But in the context of this forum, he was a major contributor to the arts. As I mentioned already above, he contributed millions to ballet and the Lincoln Center.
    Father, Fred Koch, a founding member of the John Birch Society, which even fellow Rich Boy Son of Rich Boy Father (remind you of anyone?) Wm. F. Buckley Jr. had to help smash as too crazy even for him. Through infamous Citizens United SCOTUS decision, we learned that corporations like Koch Industries are people just like us--ride the subway, worry about paying the bills, hope the young are on the right path--and can bundle billions of dollars to support right-wing causes.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/da...-scott-walker/
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Aug-24-2019 at 20:38.

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  5. #18
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Am I alone in respecting both Soros and Koch? Both advocated policies that are within the range of reasonable debate in a civil society. What sucks is now differences in opinions about policy have become pathologized.
    I think Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have set better examples of spending private wealth for public benefit. Buffett is well known for advocating that the mega-Rich pay a larger share of income taxes.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    I think Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have set better examples of spending private wealth for public benefit. Buffett is well known for advocating that the mega-Rich pay a larger share of income taxes.
    Add to that a hefty inheritance tax. And not to penalize wealthy achievers but it is a fact of life that massively wealthy family dynasties are a menace to a Democratic Republic.
    “Music makes you feel feelings. Words make you think thoughts. But a song can make you feel a thought.”

    - Yip Harburg

  8. #20
    DrMike
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    The Koch brothers have done a lot of good with their money. Hundreds of millions of dollars donated to help fight cancer and illness. I doubt, had they been taxed higher, that that money would have been used anywhere near as well as it was with them controlling it. Advocating for prison reform, drug legalization, medical research, PBS, etc. Had those hundreds of millions of dollars first gone to the federal government, you'd be lucky if you would see even 10% of what they accomplished realized by corrupt politicians and unaccountable bureaucrats.

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  10. #21
    DrMike
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    Add to that a hefty inheritance tax. And not to penalize wealthy achievers but it is a fact of life that massively wealthy family dynasties are a menace to a Democratic Republic.

    I challenge your assertion that is a fact. That is an opinion that is not universally accepted. Confiscatory taxation and wealth redistribution, I would argue, are far greater menaces to a free Democratic Republic founded on principles of individual liberty and equality before the law.
    Last edited by DrMike; Aug-24-2019 at 22:53.

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  12. #22
    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMike View Post
    The Koch brothers have done a lot of good with their money. Hundreds of millions of dollars donated to help fight cancer and illness. I doubt, had they been taxed higher, that that money would have been used anywhere near as well as it was with them controlling it. Advocating for prison reform, drug legalization, medical research, PBS, etc. Had those hundreds of millions of dollars first gone to the federal government, you'd be lucky if you would see even 10% of what they accomplished realized by corrupt politicians and unaccountable bureaucrats.
    I don't think you know what corruption is. Where do you think the money that corrupts comes from? Koch was a principal source.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

  13. #23
    DrMike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    I don't think you know what corruption is. Where do you think the money that corrupts comes from? Koch was a principal source.
    That is a fruitless argument that doesn't belong here, nor would it be resolved to either of our satisfaction. The point is that this man was a huge philanthropist, and numerous good things have been accomplished through his generosity. Not the least of which was his contribution to the arts and music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchie View Post
    I don't think you know what corruption is. Where do you think the money that corrupts comes from? Koch was a principal source.
    And George Soros is a saint.
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have." Thomas Jefferson

    “A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned — this is the sum of good government.” – Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 1801

  15. #25
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMike View Post
    The Koch brothers have done a lot of good with their money. Hundreds of millions of dollars donated to help fight cancer and illness. I doubt, had they been taxed higher, that that money would have been used anywhere near as well as it was with them controlling it. Advocating for prison reform, drug legalization, medical research, PBS, etc. Had those hundreds of millions of dollars first gone to the federal government, you'd be lucky if you would see even 10% of what they accomplished realized by corrupt politicians and unaccountable bureaucrats.
    Imagine what good could have been/could be accomplished if we had an effective and enlightened progressive Congress and Administration. And what if, as briefly under Bill Clinton, a responsible tax policy brought in sufficient revenue to have both a balanced budget and people-oriented legislation. Not to denigrate worthwhile private charity, but a humane and rational government should be working always to--as the Constitution says--promote the general welfare.

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  17. #26
    Senior Member Room2201974's Avatar
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    All hail tax write off philanthropy. Rip off the planet for the wealth to buy Senators, scientists and the silence of PBS - this is much to be admired.

    "Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sl@ts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, kochheads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude."
    The more I compose, the more I know that I don't know it all. I think it's a good way to start. If you think you know it all, the work becomes a repetition of what you've already done. ~ A. R. Rahman

  18. #27
    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMike View Post
    That is a fruitless argument that doesn't belong here, nor would it be resolved to either of our satisfaction. The point is that this man was a huge philanthropist, and numerous good things have been accomplished through his generosity. Not the least of which was his contribution to the arts and music.
    Color me unimpressed with reputation-bandaid slush-fund philanthropy.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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  20. #28
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    I don't get DrMike's logic. Taxing Koch more would have meant even more money to cancer research etc. Koch spent an inordinate amount of money in political spending. But if all that money was instead earmarked to advancing the common welfare, we'd have a net gain.

    He may have done wonders for the Lincoln Center, but he is a veritable blight on humanity and a cautionary tale for the future for how money is ultimately corrupting. Koch is the "Oil Baron" of our times.

  21. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    And George Soros is a saint.
    Thank you for demonstrating the popular tu quoque fallacy. What George Soros did has no bearing on how worse Koch made the world.
    Last edited by AeolianStrains; Aug-25-2019 at 05:51.

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  23. #30
    Senior Member haydnguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Some truly vicious hate from the left – Bill Maher, “Real Time” host on HBO:

    "And now, some funeral news to report. Yesterday David Koch of the zillionaire Koch brothers died of prostate cancer. I guess I’m going to have to re-evaluate my low opinion of prostate cancer.

    "As for his remains, he has asked to be cremated and have his ashes be blown into a child's lungs.

    "He and his brother have done more than anybody to fund climate science deniers for decades. So f--- him, the Amazon is burning up, I’m glad he’s dead, and I hope the end was painful.”

    Classy guy.
    Bill Gates is not on Koch's side and he has a zillion more than the Koch's. The Walton's of Wal-Mart fame makes 4 million dollars an hour. Can't touch this.

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