Page 4 of 24 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 353

Thread: RIP David Koch

  1. #46
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Syracuse, NY USA
    Posts
    10,303
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMike View Post
    Say what you will of the man...
    Kinda leaves the door open for more than lighthearted praise for philanthropy. Especially when the same person left behind a hugely significant political legacy.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

  2. #47
    Senior Member haydnguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,485
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Any/All discussions about Politics or Religion are restricted to the Social Groups

    Members can create their own Social Group

  3. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,032
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This was meant to be about philanthropy. Deride them all you want - the middle class doesn't build Carnegie Hall, or Lincoln Center, or the University of Chicago, or Rockefeller University, or Carnegie Mellon University. Like your local library? There is a high likelihood you have Andrew Carnegie to thank for it:
    In total, Carnegie funded some 3,000 libraries, located in 47 US states, and also in Canada, Britain, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the West Indies, and Fiji
    Howard Hughes, in an effort to screw over the federal government and prevent them from getting his wealth when he died (politicians had targeted him during his life) established the Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI), which today is a massive funder of scientific research, and being named a Howard Hughes scholar brings lots of money for research and prestige:
    HHMI spends about $1 million per HHMI Investigator per year, which amounts to annual investment in biomedical research of about $825 million.
    All evil wealthy men who used their money for good and that money is now doing much more good than it would have had it first had to be filtered through government bureaucracy.

    These weren't evil men - you just disagree with the political positions they espoused. When will we get past this toxic mentality that people who have different political philosophies than you must necessarily be evil? I'm sure most of you have no idea what all David Koch fought for politically. You only know that he funded Republicans and therefore must be evil. He was pro-choice. He was for gay rights and gay marriage long before Barack Obama. He was against military engagement around the globe and opposed the Iraq War. He was for criminal justice and prison reform, believing that the system was rigged to keep poor people and minorities down. And yes, he was a climate change skeptic. Quit treating people as one-dimensional. Hell - if you all treated Richard Wagner the way you do David Koch, you would all be torching your recordings of Tristan and the Ring and die Meistersinger right now. You'll excuse away Wagner's obvious and toxic anti-semitism, but damn that David Koch for not falling in line on climate change! Richard Wagner was a horrible person - he slept with other men's wives, he convinced a King to squander his kingdom's money on his own vanity projects, to the detriment of the country, and he was a vile anti-semite. And he is revered on here for the music he left behind. No such even-handedness is apparently being exercised for an individual you don't like.

    The hypocrisy is sickening. You will forgive a multitude of sins so long as the person is on your side - but woe to him who dares disagree with you.
    Last edited by DrMike; Aug-25-2019 at 21:42.

  4. Likes Johnnie Burgess, wkasimer liked this post
  5. #49
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    4,314
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    ^^^^The faux outrage. The OP belonged downstairs in one of the Political Groups. But following the growing trend of rolling stink bombs in under the door of the Community Forum, it was carefully, deliberately opened here, as the Original Poster has forsworn posting Downstairs, for the--what?--third time now?

  6. #50
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    4,314
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    An interesting and fruitful approach to the subject of private philanthropy was that of Oscar Wilde. Wilde was not critical of philanthropy per se, but argued that a humane society must not allow private philanthropy to assuage the troubled consciences of titanic plutocrats nor act as a drag upon the necessity of a responsible government to relieve suffering, improve society, and to "promote the general welfare." The material below is from Wikipedia's excellent entry on Wilde's social thought:

    In "The Soul of Man" Wilde argues that, under capitalism, "the majority of people spoil their lives by an unhealthy and exaggerated altruism—are forced, indeed, so to spoil them": instead of realising their true talents, they waste their time solving the social problems caused by capitalism, without taking their common cause away. Thus, caring people "seriously and very sentimentally set themselves to the task of remedying the evils that they see in poverty but their remedies do not cure the disease: they merely prolong it" because, as Wilde puts it, "the proper aim is to try and reconstruct society on such a basis that poverty will be impossible."

    Wilde did not see kindness or altruism per se as a problem; what worried him was its misapplication in a way which leaves unaddressed the roots of the problem: "the altruistic virtues have really prevented the carrying out of this aim. Just as the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it, and understood by those who contemplated it, so, in the present state of things in England, the people who do most harm are the people who try to do most good" while preserving the system.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...nder_Socialism

  7. #51
    Senior Member Room2201974's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    376
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I never understood why people applaud the pigs at the trough of corporate welfare:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RhY1x8CpWeI

    https://observer.com/2010/06/the-koc...orate-welfare/

    So yeah, giving away millions while stealing billions. Nice work if you can get it.
    "He who makes songs without feeling spoils both his words and his music. " ~ Guillaume de Machaut

    "Music that is born complex is not inherently better or worse than music that is born simple." ~ Aaron Copland.

  8. Likes starthrower liked this post
  9. #52
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Syracuse, NY USA
    Posts
    10,303
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Room2201974 View Post
    I never understood why people applaud the pigs at the trough of corporate welfare:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RhY1x8CpWeI

    https://observer.com/2010/06/the-koc...orate-welfare/

    So yeah, giving away millions while stealing billions. Nice work if you can get it.
    The hypocrisy is sickening.
    Particularly that of the "libertarian" Koch brothers. They don't practice what they preach.
    https://www.ibtimes.com/political-ca...t-thanksgiving
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

  10. Likes Room2201974 liked this post
  11. #53
    Senior Member CnC Bartok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Oxford-ish
    Posts
    1,180
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Some truly vicious hate from the left – Bill Maher, “Real Time” host on HBO:

    "And now, some funeral news to report. Yesterday David Koch of the zillionaire Koch brothers died of prostate cancer. I guess I’m going to have to re-evaluate my low opinion of prostate cancer.

    "As for his remains, he has asked to be cremated and have his ashes be blown into a child's lungs.

    "He and his brother have done more than anybody to fund climate science deniers for decades. So f--- him, the Amazon is burning up, I’m glad he’s dead, and I hope the end was painful.”

    Classy guy.
    I know little about this Koch chap, but for someone to talk about someone recently deceased with such venom shows a total lack of decency on this Maher's part. There are some people I dislike intensely, but to be grateful to cancer and to wish pain in death beggars belief.

    Cambridge
    University
    Netball
    Team

  12. Likes Johnnie Burgess, KenOC, Bulldog and 1 others liked this post
  13. #54
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Syracuse, NY USA
    Posts
    10,303
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Bill Maher is a mean-spirited comedian / TV host preaching to the choir. I wouldn't expect anything else from him. I miss John Stewart on Comedy Central. He was witty, very funny, and he has a heart.
    Last edited by starthrower; Aug-26-2019 at 02:25.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

  14. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,032
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Alright, now talk about how evil Wagner was and how we should never listen to his music again.

  15. #56
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    4,314
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    "Inside the Koch Brothers' Toxic Empire":

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...empire-164403/

  16. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,032
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    *yawn* big bad capitalists evil. Ugh. Government should take all their money. We should stop people from saying things we don't like. Anybody who isn't in lockstep with my ideology is toxic to democracy. Blah blah blah.

  17. Likes Johnnie Burgess liked this post
  18. #58
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Syracuse, NY USA
    Posts
    10,303
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMike View Post
    *yawn* big bad capitalists evil. Ugh. Government should take all their money. We should stop people from saying things we don't like. Anybody who isn't in lockstep with my ideology is toxic to democracy. Blah blah blah.
    We get it. The Koch's are heroes of yours. Blah, blah, blah.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

  19. #59
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    4,314
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CnC Bartok View Post
    I know little about this Koch chap, but for someone to talk about someone recently deceased with such venom shows a total lack of decency on this Maher's part. There are some people I dislike intensely, but to be grateful to cancer and to wish pain in death beggars belief.

    Cambridge
    University
    Netball
    Team
    No doubt that Maher was way off base. Should we ban this song?

    Bob Dylan, from Masters of War:

    Let me ask you one question
    Is your money that good?
    Will it buy you forgiveness
    Do you think that it could?
    I think you will find
    When your death takes its toll
    All the money you made
    Will never buy back your soul
    And I hope that you die
    And your death will come soon
    I'll follow your casket
    By the pale afternoon
    And I'll watch while you're lowered
    Down to your deathbed
    And I'll stand over your grave
    'Til I'm sure that you're dead

    (And, by the way, if you see Kay, let her know I was asking about her.)

  20. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,032
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    We get it. The Koch's are heroes of yours. Blah, blah, blah.
    That's the funny thing - they aren't. Sure, they have done some things I like, but I'm no libertarian. But they have made some massive donations to great causes, and generally I prefer charitable giving over coerced government extraction of money then doled out by corrupt politicians to buy their reelection. Otherwise the Venn diagram of my political philosophy and that of the Koch's doesn't overlap a lot.

    But like I said, he was a great philanthropist, like other wealthy men of the past and present. Bill Gates has put a lot of money into helping medical science. I already mentioned Howard Hughes. Carnegie and Rockefeller were also massive patrons of the arts and science.
    Last edited by DrMike; Aug-26-2019 at 04:58.

Page 4 of 24 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •