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Thread: Talk Classical's Most Recommended Composers

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Default Talk Classical's Most Recommended Composers

    This list was automatically generated from appearances on The Talk Classical Community’s Favorite and Most Highly Works. Works were assigned a score of 1/n where n is the tier of the work. The total points for each composer were then summed and ranked.

    Rank Name
    Born
    Died
    Nationality
    1 Ludwig van Beethoven 1770 1827 Germany
    2 Johann Sebastian Bach 1685 1750 Germany
    3 Johannes Brahms 1833 1897 Germany
    4 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart 1756 1791 Austria
    5 Franz Schubert 1797 1828 Austria
    6 Gustav Mahler 1860 1911 Austria
    7 Joseph Haydn 1732 1809 Austria
    8 Dmitri Shostakovich 1906 1975 Russian Federation
    9 Antonín Dvořák 1841 1904 Czech Republic
    10 Claude Debussy 1862 1918 France
    11 Robert Schumann 1810 1856 Germany
    12 Richard Wagner 1813 1883 Germany
    13 Sergei Prokofiev 1891 1953 Russian Federation
    14 Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky 1840 1893 Russian Federation
    15 Felix Mendelssohn 1809 1847 Germany
    16 Jean Sibelius 1865 1957 Finland
    17 Maurice Ravel 1875 1937 France
    18 Igor Stravinsky 1882 1971 Russian Federation
    19 Béla Bartók 1881 1945 Hungary
    20 Gabriel Fauré 1845 1924 France
    21 Sergei Rachmaninoff 1873 1943 Russian Federation
    22 Frédéric Chopin 1810 1849 Poland
    23 Richard Strauss 1864 1949 Germany
    24 Ralph Vaughan Williams 1872 1958 United Kingdom
    25 George Frideric Handel 1685 1759 Germany
    26 Olivier Messiaen 1908 1992 France
    27 Arnold Schoenberg 1874 1951 Austria
    28 Franz Liszt 1811 1886 Hungary
    29 Samuel Barber 1910 1981 United States
    30 Edward Elgar 1857 1934 United Kingdom
    31 Camille Saint-Saëns 1835 1921 France
    32 György Ligeti 1923 2006 Hungary
    33 Anton Bruckner 1824 1896 Austria
    34 Hector Berlioz 1803 1869 France
    35 Bohuslav Martinů 1890 1959 Czech Republic
    36 Antonio Vivaldi 1678 1741 Italy
    37 Benjamin Britten 1913 1976 United Kingdom
    38 Alfred Schnittke 1934 1998 Germany
    39 Edvard Grieg 1843 1907 Norway
    40 Leoš Janáček 1854 1928 Czech Republic
    41 Paul Hindemith 1895 1963 Germany
    42 Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov 1844 1908 Russian Federation
    43 Carl Nielsen 1865 1931 Denmark
    44 Aaron Copland 1900 1990 United States
    45 Heitor Villa-Lobos 1887 1959 Brazil
    46 George Enescu 1881 1955 Romania
    47 Claudio Monteverdi 1567 1643 Italy
    48 Giuseppe Verdi 1813 1901 Italy
    49 Alexander Scriabin 1872 1915 Russian Federation
    50 Francis Poulenc 1899 1963 France
    51 Modest Mussorgsky 1839 1881 Russian Federation
    52 César Franck 1822 1890 Belgium
    53 Charles Ives 1874 1954 United States
    54 John Cage 1912 1992 United States
    55 Alban Berg 1885 1935 Austria
    56 John Adams 1947 present United States
    57 Josquin des Prez 1450 1521 France
    58 Max Bruch 1838 1920 Germany
    59 Andrew Carter 1939 present United Kingdom
    60 Gustav Holst 1874 1934 United Kingdom
    61 Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina 1525 1594 Italy
    62 Anton Webern 1883 1945 Austria
    63 Arvo Pärt 1935 present Estonia
    64 George Gershwin 1898 1937 United States
    65 Gerald Finzi 1901 1956 United Kingdom
    66 Krzysztof Penderecki 1933 present Poland
    67 Philip Glass 1937 present United States
    68 Toru Takemitsu 1930 1996 Japan
    69 Iannis Xenakis 1922 2001 Greece
    70 Karlheinz Stockhausen 1928 2007 Germany
    71 Ottorino Respighi 1879 1936 Italy
    72 Johann Nepomuk Hummel 1778 1837 Austria
    73 Pierre Boulez 1925 2016 France
    74 Ernest Chausson 1855 1899 France
    75 Alexander Glazunov 1865 1936 Russian Federation
    76 Ernest Bloch 1880 1959 United States
    77 Karol Szymanowski 1882 1937 Poland
    78 Witold Lutosławski 1913 1994 Poland
    79 Henry Purcell 1659 1695 United Kingdom
    80 Sofia Gubaidulina 1931 present Russian Federation
    81 Einojuhani Rautavaara 1928 2016 Finland
    82 Alexander Borodin 1833 1887 Russian Federation
    83 Max Reger 1873 1916 Germany
    84 Jean-Philippe Rameau 1683 1764 France
    85 Arthur Honegger 1892 1955 Switzerland
    86 Frederick Delius 1862 1934 United Kingdom
    87 Kaija Saariaho 1952 present Finland
    88 Arnold Bax 1883 1953 United Kingdom
    89 Luigi Nono 1924 1990 Italy
    90 Giacomo Puccini 1858 1924 Italy
    91 Kurt Atterberg 1887 1974 Sweden
    92 Zoltán Kodály 1882 1967 Hungary
    93 Bedřich Smetana 1824 1884 Czech Republic
    94 Morton Feldman 1926 1987 United States
    95 Luciano Berio 1925 2003 Italy
    96 Thomas Tallis 1505 1585 United Kingdom
    97 Domenico Scarlatti 1685 1757 Italy
    98 Georges Bizet 1838 1875 France
    99 Henri Dutilleux 1916 2013 France
    100 Steve Reich 1936 present United States
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    101 Guillaume Du Fay 1400 1474 Belgium
    102 Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber 1644 1704 Czech Republic
    103 Johannes Ockeghem 1410 1497 Belgium
    104 Joachim Raff 1822 1882 Switzerland
    105 William Walton 1902 1983 United Kingdom
    106 Dieterich Buxtehude 1637 1707 Denmark
    107 Leonard Bernstein 1918 1990 United States
    108 George Crumb 1929 present United States
    109 Carl Maria von Weber 1786 1826 Germany
    110 Orlande de Lassus 1532 1594 Belgium
    111 Alexander von Zemlinsky 1871 1942 Austria
    112 Marc-Antoine Charpentier 1643 1704 France
    113 François Couperin 1668 1733 France
    114 Josef Suk 1874 1935 Czech Republic
    115 Nikolai Medtner 1880 1951 United Kingdom
    116 Luigi Boccherini 1743 1805 Italy
    117 Joaquín Rodrigo 1901 1999 Spain
    118 Erik Satie 1866 1925 France
    119 Allan Pettersson 1911 1980 Sweden
    120 Alberto Ginastera 1916 1983 Argentina
    121 Carlo Gesualdo 1566 1613 Italy
    122 Wilhelm Stenhammar 1871 1927 Sweden
    123 Sergei Taneyev 1856 1915 Russian Federation
    124 John Dowland 1563 1626 United Kingdom
    125 Wolfgang Rihm 1952 present Germany
    126 Edgard Varèse 1883 1965 France
    127 Guillaume de Machaut 1300 1377 France
    128 Unsuk Chin 1961 present Korea, Republic of
    129 Alan Hovhaness 1911 2000 Armenia
    130 Henryk Górecki 1933 2010 Poland
    131 Luigi Cherubini 1760 1842 Italy
    132 Reinhold Glière 1875 1956 Ukraine
    133 William Alwyn 1905 1985 United Kingdom
    134 Milton Babbitt 1916 2011 United States
    135 Hans Abrahamsen 1952 present Denmark
    136 Nikolai Myaskovsky 1881 1950 Russian Federation
    137 Christoph Willibald Gluck 1714 1787 Germany
    138 Georg Friedrich Haas 1953 present Austria
    139 Jan Dismas Zelenka 1679 1745 Czech Republic
    140 Isaac Albéniz 1860 1909 Spain
    141 Anton Arensky 1861 1906 Russian Federation
    142 György Kurtág 1926 present Hungary
    143 Louis Vierne 1870 1937 France
    144 Édouard Lalo 1823 1892 France
    145 Ernest John Moeran 1894 1950 United Kingdom
    146 Tomás Luis de Victoria 1548 1611 Spain
    147 Johann Strauss II 1825 1899 Austria
    148 Georg Philipp Telemann 1681 1767 Germany
    149 Mikhail Glinka 1804 1857 Russian Federation
    150 Joaquín Turina 1882 1949 Spain
    151 Ferruccio Busoni 1866 1924 Italy
    152 Mily Balakirev 1837 1910 Russian Federation
    153 Albéric Magnard 1865 1914 France
    154 Louis Spohr 1784 1859 Germany
    155 Louise Farrenc 1804 1875 France
    156 Terry Riley 1935 present United States
    157 Aram Khachaturian 1903 1978 Russian Federation
    158 Arcangelo Corelli 1653 1713 Italy
    159 William Byrd 1539 1623 United Kingdom
    160 Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach 1714 1788 Germany
    161 Manuel de Falla 1876 1946 Spain
    162 Albert Roussel 1869 1937 France
    163 Osvaldo Golijov 1960 present Argentina
    164 Heinrich Schütz 1585 1672 Germany
    165 Darius Milhaud 1892 1974 France
    166 Beat Furrer 1954 present Austria
    167 Harrison Birtwistle 1934 present United Kingdom
    168 Amy Beach 1867 1944 United States
    169 Enrique Granados 1867 1916 Spain
    170 Thomas Adès 1971 present United Kingdom
    171 Leo Ornstein 1895 2002 United States
    172 Tristan Murail 1947 present France
    173 Giovanni Gabrieli 1554 1612 Italy
    174 Adrian Willaert 1490 1562 Netherlands
    175 Hans Werner Henze 1926 2012 Germany
    176 William Schuman 1910 1992 United States
    177 Brian Ferneyhough 1943 1987 United Kingdom
    178 Paul Dukas 1865 1935 France
    179 Gaetano Donizetti 1797 1848 Italy
    180 Josef Rheinberger 1839 1901 Germany
    181 Hildegard of Bingen 1098 1179 Germany
    182 Charles-Valentin Alkan 1813 1888 France
    183 Charles Gounod 1818 1893 France
    184 Gérard Grisey 1946 1998 France
    185 Hugo Alfvén 1872 1960 Sweden
    186 Gioachino Rossini 1792 1868 Italy
    187 Emmanuel Chabrier 1841 1894 France
    188 Hugo Wolf 1860 1903 Austria
    189 Niccolò Paganini 1782 1840 Italy
    190 Geirr Tveitt 1908 1981 Norway
    191 Michael Nyman 1944 present United Kingdom
    192 Erich Wolfgang Korngold 1897 1957 Austria
    193 Michael Tippett 1905 1998 United Kingdom
    194 Gilbert and Sullivan 1842 1900 United Kingdom
    195 Vincenzo Bellini 1801 1835 Italy
    196 Anton Reicha 1770 1836 Czech Republic
    197 Granville Bantock 1868 1946 United Kingdom
    198 Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji 1892 1988 United Kingdom
    199 Giacomo Meyerbeer 1791 1864 Germany
    200 Jacques Offenbach 1819 1880 Germany
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    I'm actually rather impressed that you calculated all the composers "scores" from that list. You could have assumed that the Ring counts as 4 works all in the 2nd tier. Then Wagner would be 5th.
    Last edited by mmsbls; Aug-31-2019 at 19:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsbls View Post
    I'm actually rather impressed that you calculated all the composers "scores" from that list. You could have assumed that the Ring counts as 4 works all in the 2nd tier. Then Wagner would be 5th.
    It's already done on an exponential scale, giving a huge bonus to works in the top tiers. It would take 10 works at the 10th tier to equal work one at the 1st tier, and 100 works at the 100th tier to equal one work at the 1st tier. This is so composers with a small volume of masterpiece-quality works (ie. Wagner, Mahler) have a chance against composers who wrote hundreds of works of middling quality.

    tierpoints.png
    Last edited by Couchie; Aug-31-2019 at 20:24.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    We could also do a linear scale (ie, top tier work is worth 100 points, second tier is 99 points, third 98 points, so on...) the ranking would look somewhat different:

    Rank Composer
    Points
    1 Beethoven 4765
    2 Bach 3930
    3 Mozart 3865
    4 Brahms 3609
    5 Schubert 2875
    6 Haydn 2855
    7 Shostakovich 2100
    8 Schumann 1939
    9 Debussy 1746
    10 Prokofiev 1708
    11 Dvořák 1653
    12 Tchaikovsky 1512
    13 Ravel 1413
    14 Mendelssohn 1396
    15 Bartók 1272
    16 Sibelius 1268
    17 Fauré 1206
    18 Stravinsky 1165
    19 Chopin 1163
    20 Mahler 1136
    21 Vaughan Williams 1132
    22 Rachmaninoff 1052
    23 Schoenberg 1021
    24 Ligeti 916
    25 Messiaen 904
    26 Liszt 901
    27 Strauss 900
    28 Barber 849
    29 Handel 839
    30 Elgar 813
    31 Martinů 710
    32 Saint-Saëns 701
    33 Berlioz 636
    34 Britten 625
    35 Schnittke 620
    36 Nielsen 604
    37 Bruckner 593
    38 Janáček 570
    39 Wagner 564
    40 Hindemith 564
    41 Scriabin 536
    42 Grieg 528
    43 Poulenc 525
    44 Vivaldi 518
    45 Copland 479
    46 Ives 469
    47 Webern 465
    48 Franck 459
    49 Verdi 457
    50 Dohnányi 455


    tierpoints2.png
    Last edited by Couchie; Aug-31-2019 at 20:25.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Here is the dataset in tabulated form for anybody wishing to explore this:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    Senior Member BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist's Avatar
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    I like Partita's idea (see the other thread) for a geometric decline in value per work (w.r.t tier in TC's list) better than the "1/n" system used in the OP (and certainly better than the linear system).

    Not sure about the decline rate... 10% per tier maybe? 20%?
    Last edited by BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist; Aug-31-2019 at 21:08.
    Casual composer, pianist, music enthusiast

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist View Post
    I like Partita's idea (see the other thread) for a geometric decline in value per work (w.r.t tier in TC's list) better than the "1/n" system used in the OP (and certainly better than the linear system).

    Not sure about the decline rate... 10% per tier maybe? 20%?
    Seems reasonable. At 10% decline (each successive tier is worth 90% of the one higher than it) here is what you get... Brahms higher than Bach?


    Rank Composer Score
    1 Beethoven 1,135.93
    2 Brahms 1,080.40
    3 Bach 950.53
    4 Mozart 786.77
    5 Schubert 565.27
    6 Mahler 462.93
    7 Shostakovich 330.03
    8 Dvořák 301.95
    9 Debussy 268.53
    10 Sibelius 256.61
    11 Tchaikovsky 233.79
    12 Ravel 229.72
    13 Mendelssohn 223.83
    14 Haydn 216.88
    15 Wagner 203.76
    16 Schumann 201.56
    17 Prokofiev 199.92
    18 Fauré 168.07
    19 Stravinsky 164.72
    20 Bartók 162.32
    21 Rachmaninoff 144.78
    22 Chopin 121.56
    23 Strauss 102.17
    24 Bruckner 92.47
    25 Saint-Saëns 79.17
    26 Barber 72.12
    27 Schoenberg 70.76
    28 Berlioz 70.58
    29 Messiaen 69.77
    30 Mussorgsky 69.27
    31 Handel 68.52
    32 Grieg 66.02
    33 Liszt 64.35
    34 Rimsky-Korsakov 61.99
    35 Elgar 61.48
    36 Vivaldi 55.55
    37 Vaughan Williams 50.70
    38 Gershwin 47.81
    39 Berg 44.39
    40 Janáček 43.53
    41 Bruch 42.63
    42 Tallis 41.05
    43 Monteverdi 39.75
    44 Nielsen 38.67
    45 Schnittke 37.99
    46 Ligeti 34.40
    47 Copland 34.34
    48 Holst 33.18
    49 Borodin 32.91
    50 Verdi 31.73
    51 Bizet 31.19
    52 Josquin 30.96
    53 Gesualdo 30.19
    54 Smetana 29.55
    55 Palestrina 28.54
    56 Franck 26.46
    57 Kodály 25.14
    58 Rodrigo 24.96
    59 Puccini 23.62
    60 Scriabin 22.62
    61 Dohnányi 22.39
    62 Biber 21.56
    63 Hindemith 21.35
    64 Webern 20.78
    65 Ives 19.96
    66 Martinů 19.11
    67 Takemitsu 17.63
    68 Chausson 17.41
    69 Alwyn 16.96
    70 Respighi 16.87
    71 Lalo 16.85
    72 Britten 16.47
    73 Ockeghem 15.89
    74 Finzi 15.78
    75 Bloch 15.61
    76 Machaut 15.11
    77 Cage 15.05
    78 Crumb 13.84
    79 Hummel 13.28
    80 Honegger 12.29
    81 Feldman 12.28
    82 Górecki 11.31
    83 Magnard 11.22
    84 Zemlinsky 10.39
    85 Abrahamsen 10.35
    86 Poulenc 10.34
    87 Villa-Lobos 10.14
    88 Albéniz 9.98
    89 Stockhausen 9.86
    90 Purcell 9.60
    91 Szymanowski 9.39
    92 Corelli 9.36
    93 Pärt 9.35
    94 Vasks 9.26
    95 Carter 9.05
    96 Dowland 8.95
    97 Haas 8.94
    98 Glazunov 8.78
    99 Rameau 8.77
    100 Buxtehude 8.74
    Last edited by Couchie; Aug-31-2019 at 21:36.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    At 20% decline rate:

    Rank Composer Score
    1 Beethoven 504.21
    2 Brahms 495.92
    3 Bach 464.54
    4 Mozart 303.10
    5 Mahler 229.46
    6 Schubert 209.18
    7 Wagner 146.55
    8 Dvořák 121.38
    9 Sibelius 81.54
    10 Stravinsky 76.21
    11 Shostakovich 73.54
    12 Debussy 67.71
    13 Tchaikovsky 61.52
    14 Mendelssohn 58.40
    15 Ravel 49.45
    16 Rachmaninoff 44.57
    17 Prokofiev 42.81
    18 Fauré 37.40
    19 Bartók 36.83
    20 Mussorgsky 33.26
    21 Schumann 30.51
    22 Haydn 28.74
    23 Berlioz 21.81
    24 Bruckner 17.70
    25 Vivaldi 17.27
    26 Strauss 16.03
    27 Saint-Saëns 15.88
    28 Rimsky-Korsakov 15.09
    29 Liszt 13.95
    30 Chopin 13.84
    31 Tallis 13.45
    32 Grieg 11.93
    33 Messiaen 11.47
    34 Barber 11.40
    35 Handel 11.14
    36 Gershwin 9.47
    37 Berg 8.95
    38 Bruch 8.90
    39 Elgar 8.67
    40 Holst 8.59
    41 Schoenberg 7.03
    42 Borodin 6.93
    43 Bizet 5.60
    44 Palestrina 5.51
    45 Monteverdi 5.25
    46 Copland 4.66
    47 Janáček 4.65
    48 Kodály 4.41
    49 Gesualdo 3.69
    50 Smetana 3.32
    51 Nielsen 3.29
    52 Josquin 2.76
    53 Schnittke 2.74
    54 Rodrigo 2.72
    55 Verdi 2.56
    56 Biber 2.30
    57 Alwyn 2.25
    58 Lalo 2.25
    59 Vaughan Williams 2.04
    60 Franck 1.78
    61 Puccini 1.63
    62 Takemitsu 1.48
    63 Machaut 1.45
    64 Ligeti 1.09
    65 Hindemith 1.01
    66 Dohnányi 1.00
    67 Respighi 0.99
    68 Crumb 0.96
    69 Magnard 0.92
    70 Górecki 0.92
    71 Ives 0.81
    72 Scriabin 0.68
    73 Ockeghem 0.65
    74 Chausson 0.63
    75 Corelli 0.59
    76 Cage 0.57
    77 Webern 0.52
    78 Bloch 0.51
    79 Albéniz 0.49
    80 Abrahamsen 0.49
    81 Zemlinsky 0.49
    82 Canteloube 0.47
    83 Hildegard 0.39
    84 Dowland 0.38
    85 Szymanowski 0.38
    86 Honegger 0.38
    87 Martinů 0.35
    88 Feldman 0.35
    89 Britten 0.34
    90 Haas 0.33
    91 Finzi 0.32
    92 Stockhausen 0.32
    93 Buxtehude 0.31
    94 Dufay 0.31
    95 Duruflé 0.30
    96 Vasks 0.29
    97 Villa-Lobos 0.26
    98 Pärt 0.26
    99 Satie 0.26
    100 Hummel 0.25
    Last edited by Couchie; Aug-31-2019 at 21:36.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    Note that the geometric decline is fairer to works above tier 12, but below that, it becomes harsher than 1/n. It reduces the lower tier works to practically worthless.
    Last edited by Couchie; Aug-31-2019 at 21:43.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    Any poll that does not place the big 3 in the top 3 slots is at fault.

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaySalieri View Post
    Any poll that does not place the big 3 in the top 3 slots is at fault.
    It seems the TC community overrates Brahms (who is already overrated!)
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    This is amazing! Thank you!

    EDIT: Alan Hovhaness was American.
    Last edited by Portamento; Sep-01-2019 at 01:03.

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    At the end of the day what do we know that we didn't know before ... not much as far as I can tell!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    At the end of the day what do we know that we didn't know before ... not much as far as I can tell!
    A lot less than "not much".

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