Page 19 of 26 FirstFirst ... 9151617181920212223 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 285 of 378

Thread: Verdi baritones

  1. #271
    Senior Member vivalagentenuova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Probably the only singer who was actually a great Verdi baritone and a great Verdi tenor:




    Ever since I heard his voice, I have been in awe of Renato Zanelli. Not only does he have one of the greatest voices of the century, his interpretations are deeply moving. He's my Caruso. (And my Ruffo )
    Last edited by vivalagentenuova; Jan-21-2020 at 17:25.

  2. Likes wkasimer, Bonetan, Barelytenor liked this post
  3. #272
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    16,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vivalagentenuova View Post
    Probably the only singer who was actually a great Verdi baritone and a great Verdi tenor:




    Ever since I heard his voice, I have been in awe of Renato Zanelli. Not only does he have one of the greatest voices of the century, his interpretations are deeply moving. He's my Caruso. (And my Ruffo )
    A great singer indeed. I must admit that his extreme histrionics in Otello's death scene made me burst out laughing. I mean, it's still MUSIC, folks! But it sounded like a live peformance, so maybe it worked fine in the theater.

  4. #273
    Senior Member vivalagentenuova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yes the gasps are a bit silly, but everything up to that point is extremely musical and well characterized.

  5. #274
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    16,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I adhere to the Callas school of interpretation: say what you have to say through musical means, by coloring the voice and inflecting the phrase. Gasps and sobs generally seem hammy to me.

  6. #275
    Senior Member vivalagentenuova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I mean, I agree with that up to a point, but Callas actually took it too far. She artificially lightened her voice in order to "color" her lines, and in a number of her vaunted recordings is pretty much crooning and full of constriction. That's just as bad imo as hammyness. And it's what destroyed her voice.

  7. #276
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    16,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vivalagentenuova View Post
    I mean, I agree with that up to a point, but Callas actually took it too far. She artificially lightened her voice in order to "color" her lines, and in a number of her vaunted recordings is pretty much crooning and full of constriction. That's just as bad imo as hammyness. And it's what destroyed her voice.
    One is ham and the other is eggs. I don't know why eggs. It just sounds nice.

    Callas's vocal colorings have never bothered me one iota. In fact they always amaze me. Call it "crooning" (I wouldn't) or call it anything, but the mental strength and feeling behind it was never in doubt. Her imagination and artistic ambition may have overtaxed her voice, but what a ride while it lasted!
    Last edited by Woodduck; Jan-22-2020 at 05:17.

  8. Likes IgorS, The Conte liked this post
  9. #277
    Senior Member Bonetan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Deutschland
    Posts
    875
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Where do the Verdi baritone roles rank in terms of the strength of voice required? I assume Rigoletto, Iago, Macbeth require the heavier voice, yes? Do Boccanegra & Nabucco belong in that category? Or can lyric voices sing them like Germont, Posa? Where do di Luna & Renato fall? How many Verdi baritone roles actually require a true Verdi baritone to be truly successful?

  10. Likes The Conte liked this post
  11. #278
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    16,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonetan View Post
    Where do the Verdi baritone roles rank in terms of the strength of voice required? I assume Rigoletto, Iago, Macbeth require the heavier voice, yes? Do Boccanegra & Nabucco belong in that category? Or can lyric voices sing them like Germont, Posa? Where do di Luna & Renato fall? How many Verdi baritone roles actually require a true Verdi baritone to be truly successful?
    I'm not sure about these fine distinctions, but my feeling is that categories like "Verdi baritone" - categories of all kinds, actually, but especially vocal "fachs" - tempt us to be too limited in our thinking and expectations. Not every baritone needs to be a roaring lion like Ruffo to sing Verdi's dramatic parts effectively. Verdi singers don't normally have to battle a huge orchestra the way Wotan does, not even in his later operas, but they need to have a combination of range, power, projection and finesse to do justice to Verdi's music, which calls for a foundation in bel canto technique (but fails to get that from too many singers, especially recently). A good Verdi baritone should be a good Donizetti or Rossini baritone as well.
    Last edited by Woodduck; Jan-23-2020 at 21:15.

  12. Likes Bonetan, wkasimer liked this post
  13. #279
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    15,588
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonetan View Post
    Where do the Verdi baritone roles rank in terms of the strength of voice required? I assume Rigoletto, Iago, Macbeth require the heavier voice, yes? Do Boccanegra & Nabucco belong in that category? Or can lyric voices sing them like Germont, Posa? Where do di Luna & Renato fall? How many Verdi baritone roles actually require a true Verdi baritone to be truly successful?
    You miss out Falstaff which requires a heavy baritone. Gobbi of course hadn’t quite the ‘fatness’ required but made up for it by sheer vocal acting. In recent years Maestri has made the role his own both in voice and appearance.

  14. Likes Bonetan liked this post
  15. #280
    Senior Member Bonetan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Deutschland
    Posts
    875
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Not every baritone needs to be a roaring lion like Ruffo to sing Verdi's dramatic parts effectively. Verdi singers don't normally have to battle a huge orchestra the way Wotan does, not even in his later operas, but they need to have a combination of range, power, projection and finesse to do justice to Verdi's music, which calls for a foundation in bel canto technique (but fails to get that from too many singers, especially recently). A good Verdi baritone should be a good Donizetti or Rossini baritone as well.
    Ahh this must be why it's so rare for a dramatic baritone to excel in both Wagner & Verdi in their careers.

    With that in mind, who has really excelled in both?
    Last edited by Bonetan; Jan-24-2020 at 00:09.

  16. #281
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sharon, Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    I'm not sure about these fine distinctions, but my feeling is that categories like "Verdi baritone" - categories of all kinds, actually, but especially vocal "fachs" - tempt us to be too limited in our thinking and expectations. Not every baritone needs to be a roaring lion like Ruffo to sing Verdi's dramatic parts effectively.
    Amen. My favorite "Verdi baritone" is Pavel Lisitsian, who was anything but a roaring lion.

  17. Likes Woodduck, Bonetan liked this post
  18. #282
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sharon, Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonetan View Post
    Ahh this must be why it's so rare for a dramatic baritone to excel in both Wagner & Verdi in their careers.

    With that in mind, who has really excelled in both?
    Joseph Schwarz.

  19. Likes Woodduck, Bonetan liked this post
  20. #283
    Senior Member Sieglinde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    614
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Boccanegra seems deceptively lyrical for the most part (and lyric baritones do sing him sometimes) but then the council chamber scene hits and he needs that power The curse is far more terrifying when someone like Milnes delievers it.

  21. Likes Bonetan liked this post
  22. #284
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    16,204
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonetan View Post
    Ahh this must be why it's so rare for a dramatic baritone to excel in both Wagner & Verdi in their careers.

    With that in mind, who has really excelled in both?
    Scwarz was marvelous, as wkasimer points out. I suspect that many pre-WW II baritones were effective in both Verdi and Wagner, much as Frida Leider was as a soprano. Of course opera was generally sung in translation then, so German singers doing Verdi would have sung it in German. But Schwarz is so good I'd rather hear him sing Rigoletto in German than a great many others in Italian.
    Last edited by Woodduck; Jan-24-2020 at 01:31.

  23. Likes wkasimer, Bonetan liked this post
  24. #285
    Senior Member vivalagentenuova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Indeed. There were many baritones who could sing Verdi and Wagner well, especially the lighter Wagner roles. Reinmar (who even sang Wotan very well), Schlusnus, Rehkemper, Bellantoni, and Battistini even sang Tannhauser.

    Of course opera was generally sung in translation then, so German singers doing Verdi would have sung it in German. But Schwarz is so good I'd rather hear him sing Rigoletto in German than a great many others in Italian.
    Preiser has a set of Rosvaenge and Schlusnus doing Verdi arias and duets in German. Absolutely excellent. They do my one of my favorite versions of Solenne in quest'ora.

  25. Likes Woodduck liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •