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Thread: Live from the Met: Turandot with Christine Goerke, Yusif Eyvazov, Eleonora Buratto

  1. #16
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    I do actually know a lot more about singing that you give me credit (being married to a former professional musician who is also a singer and having other professional musicians in my family) which is why your posts make me raise certain questions. But it's just that some of us are a little more self-deprecating about our knowledge. But as you can't seem to answer a question without going in for your usual kind of character assassination just leave it at that. Please just read what you yourself put (is it not 'aggressive'?) before you accuse others of 'poisoning the atmosphere'! I believe music lovers ought to be able to disagree in a spirit of mutual respect and friendship.
    If you know anything about vocal technique you have yet to demonstrate it. Glib broadsides against This Is Opera don't show any knowledge of anything. They show only a desire to be disagreeable, at which you are an expert.

    I can and will answer any question that's honorably asked. Your persistent demand for people's "qualifications" - asking me how much time I spend in opera houses, as if that were any proof of anything - is not honorable. It's game-playing, it's one-upmanship, and it's presumptuous. Ask a real question about something and you'll get an answer.

    As for who is "poisoning the atmosphere," if you want a clue as to who is regarded as a useful contributor here, note the number of "likes" we each get from other forum participants. A person who actually had a sincere desire for "mutual respect and friendship" just might wonder about that, take a hint, and reexamine his attitude and approach. But I have never seen you reexamine anything on any subject. You have only dug in more stubbornly whenever opposed, no matter how pointless or insubstantial your position and no matter what information is presented to you. On the subject of vocal technique, your position is not even insubstantial. It's nonexistent. All you have done, on this thread and on the one you've imported your attitude from - The Met's Music Director, Vocal "Expert" - is carp and criticize.

    Here is your very first post on that thread:

    "Load of rubbish if you ask me. Of course, if you take excerpts like this out of context you can prove anything you like. Then when they play the real 'oldies' who are supposed to have such marvellous voices they always sound really thin to me but whether that is due to the ancient recording or the voice I don't know. But we are supposed to say they are marvellous. The guy obviously has an axe to grind and has chosen his out-of-context excerpts to try and illustrate his own prejudices. No doubt we could prove the same points if we listened in to suitably doctored excerpts from Tebaldi's or Callas' rehearsals. I can remember critics going on about them when they were alive. Of course, now they are dead, they are like the angels! I was talking to a voice coach the other week and am sure he would take an exception to this sort of thing. Bit of an insult on the intelligence I call it."

    Nice, thoughtful, mature approach to the subject, isn't it? You then go on to spend most of your time on the thread complaining that This Is Opera haven't provided you with enough "credentials" to satisfy you that their views are worth considering. If you were really interested in the thread, you would try to address the specific points it raises, offering ideas of your own that might support or question those points, or eliciting the ideas of others here. But it isn't your goal either to offer knowledge or obtain it.

    The only "load of rubbish" around here, the only "insult on the intelligence," is your entire approach to an interesting subject which I offered for the consideration of people who know something about singing, or wish to think and learn about it. That discussion could have proceeded much more profitably and pleasantly without your determined effort to undermine it, find someone to disparage, and demonstrate what you think is your superior wisdom and good sense. The same could be said of a lot of discussions around here.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    As to the point the OP raised, yes I will be going to the broadcast, circumstances permitting. Seems too good an opportunity to miss for a few quid at the local cinema.If the singing is not up to much not too much lost and the production looks sumptuous. Can't think how much the expense of going to the Met would be! I know nothing beats actually being there 'live' but this is the next best thing.
    Last edited by DavidA; Oct-10-2019 at 20:46.

  4. #18
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    You're in for a treat. And the new Liu, Eleanora Buratto is a real find.
    Enjoy.

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  6. #19
    Senior Member Barelytenor's Avatar
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    @nina foresti You're right, I've decided to go and to eat popcorn! After all, I dearly love the tunes, and especially Ping, Pang, and Pong singing "Ho una casa nell' Honan" which is a little island of serenity amidst all the yelling and violence. I have never liked Turandot, the character, and don't think any soprano could make me do that. But I do love the busy Zeffirelli staging as well.

    Thanks for the gentle push, Nina.

    PS Being the (current) husband of Her Nebs is NOT a recommendation to me.

    Kind regards,

    George

  7. #20
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barelytenor View Post
    @nina foresti You're right, I've decided to go and to eat popcorn! After all, I dearly love the tunes, and especially Ping, Pang, and Pong singing "Ho una casa nell' Honan" which is a little island of serenity amidst all the yelling and violence. I have never liked Turandot, the character, and don't think any soprano could make me do that. But I do love the busy Zeffirelli staging as well.

    Thanks for the gentle push, Nina.

    PS Being the (current) husband of Her Nebs is NOT a recommendation to me.

    Kind regards,

    George
    I do hope you're not sitting near me! I believe the fate of all those who eat popcorn in the cinema (especially during opera) should be the same as Turandot's princes, Calaf excluded!

  8. #21
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    I'll be bringing candy gum. Perfect for audiences who want silence.

    But how much is a few quid? I had been considering the 20€ price of the screening and thought the reposition of Madama Butterfly next month wasn't worth the money (not even the singing that I heard in the trailers). I'll be watching MB and FROSCH by other means.

    And by the way. Anyone curious for Girard's Holländer?

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barelytenor View Post
    @nina foresti You're right, I've decided to go and to eat popcorn! After all, I dearly love the tunes, and especially Ping, Pang, and Pong singing "Ho una casa nell' Honan" which is a little island of serenity amidst all the yelling and violence. I have never liked Turandot, the character, and don't think any soprano could make me do that. But I do love the busy Zeffirelli staging as well.

    Thanks for the gentle push, Nina.

    PS Being the (current) husband of Her Nebs is NOT a recommendation to me.

    Kind regards,

    George
    I will disregard your negative statement about her Nebs -- she of one fabulous voice and staying power.
    Enjoy your popcorn and please save some for me. How else is an HD experience complete without it?

  10. #23
    Senior Member Open Book's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barelytenor View Post
    @nina foresti You're right, I've decided to go and to eat popcorn! After all, I dearly love the tunes, and especially Ping, Pang, and Pong singing "Ho una casa nell' Honan" which is a little island of serenity amidst all the yelling and violence. I have never liked Turandot, the character, and don't think any soprano could make me do that. But I do love the busy Zeffirelli staging as well.

    Thanks for the gentle push, Nina.

    PS Being the (current) husband of Her Nebs is NOT a recommendation to me.

    Kind regards,

    George
    Popcorn is noisy for the people sitting close to you. Don't eat popcorn.
    "No one chooses the tuba" - Alexander von Puttkamer

  11. #24
    Senior Member Barelytenor's Avatar
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    Untwist your knickers, all. There will be plenty of empty seats here in Virginia, I'm sad to say. And I'll probably just drink some water ... Since I am down 30 pounds and counting.

    Sorry Nina, but I used to like Anna a lot better before she starting doing too many roles too heavy for her voice. I hope you all enjoy it and I especially hope that Goerke is in splendid voice!

    Kind regards,

    George

  12. #25
    Senior Member Barelytenor's Avatar
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    Well I thoroughly enjoyed that! While Eyvazov does not have the sheer beautiful vocal colors of say Pavarotti (to whom he paid tribute during his interview, saying it was Luciano's birthday today—I dunno), he was a sexy and appealing character to charm the Ice Princess. And he sang with excellent musicianship and decent Italian. And I thought Christine Goerke did an excellent job of trying to show Turandot torn between fear and love. But the chorus and Eleanora Buratto stole the show; I have never heard the Met chorus sound better, and YNS did exactly what he said he wanted to do, bring out the contrast between the Big Sections and the Quiet Pieces. Even PP&P were excellent. A bang-up day!

    I ate grapes. Quietly.

    Kind regards,

    George

  13. #26
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Just to report I really enjoyed the Met Turandot too. So did everyone sitting around me including one guy who was a professional singer sitting next to me. So I think the negative scorn and that has been placed on modern singing and conducting and the reasons ‘we’ don’t like opera was shown up for what it was. Even though Eyvazov Was no Corelli Or Pavarotti he did a pretty decent job and sang well and what’s more looked the part in HD. Goerke sang well in the impossible part and I agree she presented a princess torn by love and fear. The three clowns did well But it was Buratto who stole the show and I don’t know why the prince didn’t fall for her in the first place! She was absolutely fantastic . I don’t understand the carping that has gone on about YNS. I thought the conducting was incredibly dramatic and brought out the contrast in the scores. The production was absolutely overwhelming even in HD Making one wish one had seen it live but then a trip to New York would’ve been overly more expensive than down to the local flicks. Thank goodness for modern technology by which we can get these treats without having to travel the world or even the country. I don’t know about your picture house but mine was quite full
    I didn’t know there is a butterfly coming up which I will possibly see but I will avoid the Wozzeck as there is enough in life to depress me without seeing it and I think I’m on holiday at the time anyway . As for the Philip Glass piece, I was glad they previewed it because it does give me a chance to avoid it. I certainly couldn’t stand any more of that screeching .
    Last edited by DavidA; Oct-13-2019 at 06:37.

  14. #27
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    As for the Philip Glass piece, I was glad they previewed it because it does give me a chance to avoid it. I certainly couldn’t stand any more of that screeching .
    It's only screeching because of the modern singing. You should have heard the way Caruso, Ponselle, and Ruffo sang Philip Glass.
    Alan

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  16. #28
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barelytenor View Post
    I ate grapes. Quietly.

    Kind regards,

    George
    I ate my sandwiches and a flask of tea before it began and an ice cream during the interval. Unfortunately a guy near me decided to rustle a bag of sweets during In Questa Reggia. He is now walking around headless!


  17. #29
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amfortas View Post
    It's only screeching because of the modern singing. You should have heard the way Caruso, Ponselle, and Ruffo sang Philip Glass.
    ............................

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    Very gratifying to come home from a glorious weekend away in leaf-changing territory (Vermont) to hear all the positive praise for Turandot and its wonderful principals.
    I shall have the privilege of seeing the Encore of this production on Wednesday evening when we take our Shake Shack dinners* to a 6:30 pm almost-empty theater showing in HD with other friends.

    *nothing noisy, just hamburgers and milkshakes!

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