Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: Beginner/''Stupid''/Quick Questions Thread

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Beginner/''Stupid''/Quick Questions Thread

    How about it? I've seen such continuously running threads in other special interrest forums, and they are often very useful.

    I love to read about music while listening to it. Sometimes you've got a quick question about a particular piece or composer. Sometimes you've got a more general one, but it may be a very basic one compared to the discussion going on here, or it may be wildly off, and you're emebarrassed to ask or to clog up existing threads with it.

    Some personal examples:

    -I was reading about historically informed performance/practise, and then it struck me that top non-HIP violinists often play on centuries old violins. Can such violins accomodate steel strings and modern pitch, as in handle the tension? How do they modify them? How about the shorter neck?

    -Listening to Tallis' Spem in alium, I was thinking about how the music appear to just ''be'', it just is, and it fills the room like a multi-dimensional tapestry. Later music appears to have much more of a direction and a goal. In an effort to figure out how and why, I was reading about modal early modal music and about modal jazz and Kind of Blue, because I seemed to find some similarities, on an intutive basis. But I couldn't find a clear answer. Am I way off, if so which direction should I go in (as a layman) to get a better understanding?

    With the wealth of resources here, such a thread may be useful to a lot of people. How about it? I couldn't find an existing one from a search, so I figured I'd just start one. If it is a stupid idea it will sink, if not it will float.

  2. Likes Open Book liked this post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Enthusiast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    5,973
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Seems like a good idea but could get a bit messy with possible answers (and subsequent elaborations and disagreements on them) and new questions all mixed up together? Your second question is something that interests me. Some music has a sense of a narrative and seems to "take you somewhere", while with other music you are "already there"! For a long time I found I liked the former much more than the latter but less so now. I'm sure there will be members who can explain what is happening in each "type".

  4. Likes Haabrann liked this post
  5. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    120
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think we need a thread like this.
    In many other threads people go into difficult discussion very quickly because they are so knowledgeable.
    It's intimidating for a beginner like me to jump into the conversation.

    I have a question about how multiple movements of a composition are addressed.
    Obviously "1st movement, 2nd movement" is clear and precise.
    Having the tempo indication like "Allegro ma non troppo" would be helpful to identify the movements on the score I guess?
    But on some CDs I saw some passages are labelled "Allegro - XXX - XXX - XXX ....."
    What is the point to list all the tempo change in a movement? Some are really, really long! If the listeners want that much information they would be reading the score, right?

  6. Likes Haabrann liked this post
  7. #4
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rice View Post
    I think we need a thread like this.
    As a teacher / lecturer I encourage people to ask questions no matter how 'silly' or 'trivial' they might appear on the grounds that there are probably quite a few others who wanted to ask the same question! It is the art of good teaching - no question is 'trivial' enough to be despised!

  8. Likes Triplets, Haabrann liked this post
  9. #5
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13,527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rice View Post
    I think we need a thread like this.
    In many other threads people go into difficult discussion very quickly because they are so knowledgeable.
    It's intimidating for a beginner like me to jump into the conversation.

    I have a question about how multiple movements of a composition are addressed.
    Obviously "1st movement, 2nd movement" is clear and precise.
    Having the tempo indication like "Allegro ma non troppo" would be helpful to identify the movements on the score I guess?
    But on some CDs I saw some passages are labelled "Allegro - XXX - XXX - XXX ....."
    What is the point to list all the tempo change in a movement? Some are really, really long! If the listeners want that much information they would be reading the score, right?
    It would appear that these are the tempo divisions the composer has marked into the score. Like the movements of some of the late Beethoven quartets.
    Last edited by DavidA; Oct-10-2019 at 10:43.

  10. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    River Forest, Il, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,770
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiast View Post
    Seems like a good idea but could get a bit messy with possible answers (and subsequent elaborations and disagreements on them) and new questions all mixed up together? Your second question is something that interests me. Some music has a sense of a narrative and seems to "take you somewhere", while with other music you are "already there"! For a long time I found I liked the former much more than the latter but less so now. I'm sure there will be members who can explain what is happening in each "type".
    I’m not OCD (afaik), but I see the messy point. For example, in the OP, it would be nice to have the latter part of the post in a thread devoted to Tallis or Spem. The obvious solution would be for someone (moderator) to provide links to other threads, but seeing as how every thread tends to wander off somewhere, probably not practical

  11. #7
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sedona
    Posts
    4,223
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Thumbs up

    "I love to read about music while listening to it."

    One of the great pleasures in life.
    "That's all Folks!"

  12. Likes Haabrann, Captainnumber36 liked this post
  13. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Personally, I'm a fan of meandering, loosely related but ''off topic'' discussion. You often pick up stuff you didn't know you'd like to know. So the messy point wouldn't worry me at all.

    From what I've seen in such threads in other forums, they often go technical and/or off-topic, but they're quickly reeled in when a new question appears. Questions are answered as a rule, then a discussion may take place. To me, a bit messiness just adds to the relaxed, ''anything goes'' athmosphere, and thus may lower the threshold to ask basic/''silly'' questions.

    I fully agree with the notion that there are no such thing as ''stupid'' or ''trivial'' questions. But there's a time and place for everything. Having a thread going with a relaxed, low-threshold and supportive athmosphere could be a good place for such things.
    Last edited by Haabrann; Oct-10-2019 at 12:30.

  14. #9
    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4,585
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rice View Post
    I have a question about how multiple movements of a composition are addressed.
    Obviously "1st movement, 2nd movement" is clear and precise.
    Having the tempo indication like "Allegro ma non troppo" would be helpful to identify the movements on the score I guess?
    But on some CDs I saw some passages are labelled "Allegro - XXX - XXX - XXX ....."
    What is the point to list all the tempo change in a movement? Some are really, really long! If the listeners want that much information they would be reading the score, right?
    It's just the hobgoblin of consistency at work. Because most movements of instrumental works lack titles or other identifiers beyond "first movement" or "second movement," tempo marks became the default identifier. If one reads Adagio for the second movement of a symphony, one has a good idea of what to expect — it's the standard slow movement. If one reads Adagio-Allegro molto for a first movement, one is pretty sure it starts with a slow introduction followed by a sonata form structure. In most cases, the sequence of tempi contains useful information, so the practice is followed consistently, even in those relatively rare cases where it borders on the silly.

    What greater comfort does time afford than the objects of terror re-encountered and their fraudulence exposed in the flash of reason?
    — William Gaddis, The Recognitions

    Originality is a device untalented people use to impress other untalented people and to protect themselves from talented people.
    Basil Valentine

  15. #10
    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    924
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rice View Post
    Having the tempo indication like "Allegro ma non troppo" would be helpful to identify the movements on the score I guess?
    But on some CDs I saw some passages are labelled "Allegro - XXX - XXX - XXX ....."
    What is the point to list all the tempo change in a movement? Some are really, really long! If the listeners want that much information they would be reading the score, right?
    Usually, it's the 'fantasie' pieces that are labelled that way,
    Mozart K475:
    https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Fantas.../dp/B000VIT0R0
    Adagio - Allegro - Andantino - Più allegro -Tempo I

    or Chopin Op.49, for example:
    https://www.discogs.com/Chopin-J%C3%...elease/8382676
    Tempo Di Marcia - Doppio Movimento - Lento Sostenuto - Tempo I

    or Schubert D940:
    https://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Fant.../dp/B0018NGTO4
    Allegro molto moderato - Largo - Allegro vivace - Tempo I

    I think it's because fantasies are supposed to be improvisatory in nature, going through various mood shifts. Marking one as simply Adagio only because it starts off as Adagio isn't really a good description of the character of the piece.
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Oct-10-2019 at 19:52.

  16. #11
    Senior Member isorhythm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,522
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haabrann View Post
    -Listening to Tallis' Spem in alium, I was thinking about how the music appear to just ''be'', it just is, and it fills the room like a multi-dimensional tapestry. Later music appears to have much more of a direction and a goal. In an effort to figure out how and why, I was reading about modal early modal music and about modal jazz and Kind of Blue, because I seemed to find some similarities, on an intutive basis. But I couldn't find a clear answer. Am I way off, if so which direction should I go in (as a layman) to get a better understanding?
    Later music is tonal, which in the common practice period means various elaborations and variations of tonic-->dominant-->tonic. That gives a clear narrative to common practice tonal music.

    16th century music doesn't work with large scale tonal areas like this. Harmony and cadences arise from the interaction of independent voices and a lot of the accidentals (sharps and flats) result from rules of counterpoint. Composers didn't think in terms of moving decisively in the sharp or flat direction away from or toward a home key, as they would later. Consequently there's less of a feeling of "going somewhere."

    I like Miles Davis and John Coltrane a lot, but don't know enough to say what parallels they have to 16th century music. You're probably onto something.

  17. Likes Haabrann, Enthusiast liked this post
  18. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    1,266
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Re steel strings on old violins. Don't do it! Those violins were not designed to take the higher stress and tension that steel has. Using synthetic strings or real gut (expensive) is what should be done. You could raise the height of the saddle to reduce the downward force on the bridge, but take it to highly skilled luthier for the job.

  19. Likes Haabrann liked this post
  20. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hey thank sisorhythm , that's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for!

    Now, I won't pretend to understand that to the full extent. My theory knowledge is so rusty that it is basically non-existent at this point, and it was never more than the crude basics to begin with. But it is the clear answer I was searching for, and provides multiple directions for me to get the fuller understanding. Now I can use it as a backdrop or frame when reading further on the matter, and then go back and forth between what you said, the music, and more readings, which is great help.

    Thanks, mbhaub. I don't play the violin and I'll never get my hands on a Stradivarius. But reading the usual critique of HIP coming from traditionalists, one point is often the sound from period instruments. Modern sound better. Yet non-HIP virtuosos often plays those famous, centuries old instuments. If they play them with gut strings, it is period instruments, which seems contradictory.

  21. #14
    Senior Member Oldhoosierdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    855
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    All of those are silly questions? They sound high brow to me. I'll ask an ignorant Hoosier hilljack question. What the hades is an Opus? And what does the number of the opus mean?
    I don't live in the past,
    there's no future in it.

  22. Likes Haabrann liked this post
  23. #15
    Senior Member Captainnumber36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,725
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhoosierdude View Post
    All of those are silly questions? They sound high brow to me. I'll ask an ignorant Hoosier hilljack question. What the hades is an Opus? And what does the number of the opus mean?
    I believe it's just a term used for categorization of a set of works. For example, the Op. 18 SQs by Beethoven.
    Last edited by Captainnumber36; Oct-11-2019 at 07:51.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •