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This year's nominees for the R&R HOF, who ya got?

5K views 51 replies 13 participants last post by  Duncan 
#1 ·
Okay, let's not have a discussion about how bogus you may think the R&R HOF is. If that's your subject, start your own thread. This thread is for a discussion of how worthy you may think a nominee for this year is.

Pat Benatar
Dave Matthews Band
Depeche Mode
The Doobie Brothers
Whitney Houston
Judas Priest
Kraftwerk
MC5
Motörhead
Nine Inch Nails
The Notorious B.I.G.
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
Todd Rundgren
Soundgarden
T. Rex
Thin Lizzy

I'd go with The Doobies, Houston, Rundgren, Benatar. The Dave Matthews Band is deserving, but they'll get in later. Rufus is a maybe!
 
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#6 ·
MC5 - if the Stooges are already inducted then so should they be. I never thought T. Rex were particularly popular in the USA so I'm surprised as well as pleased at the nomination. Other than MC5 I would nominate Kraftwerk - both groups were very influential. I have no idea why Whitney Houston should be nominated at all - as far as I'm concerned she was an MOR dance-pop act who hardly - if ever - wrote a note of music in her life but I suppose the parameters are so wide that anyone can get in these days.
 
#7 ·
^^^^I'm a Mariah Carey fan myself, over Whitney, but one of the biggest complaints of past R&RHOF picks has been the seeming over-indulgence by the in-group selecting body in electing low-sales, never-broadly-popular cult artists and groups, while ignoring the role of popularity, sales, number one hits, etc. in determining who is truly "famous" in a genre regarded as Popular Music. How about The Stooges and Whitney (and Carey) all getting in?
 
#8 ·
^
^

With respect, if the HoF ends up including Whitney Houston it won't end there, will it? In time the likes of Stock, Aitken & Waterman, any generic K-pop act and Michael Bublé could get nominated, and if any of them are enshrined then I think it will be a travesty of what the HoF originally stood for.
 
#10 · (Edited)
And with respect, better to err on the side of inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness, the slippery-slope argument notwithstanding. The Rolling Stone History of Women in Rock (1997) has a huge chapter titled Smooth Operators: Contemporary R&B with references to Aaliyah, Patti Austin, Anita Baker, Mary T. Blige, Tanya Blount, Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, Randy Crawford, Des'ree, En Vogue, Dionne Farris, Whitney Houston, Miki Howard, Chante Moore, Alison Moyet, Shara Nelson, Mica Paris, Juliet Roberts, Sade, Sandra St. Victor, Lisa Stansfield, TLC, Jodi Whatley, Caron Wheeler, Karyn White, Vanessa Williams, CeCe Winans, and Angela Winbush. It's obvious that not all of these should be voted into the HOF, but surely the genre is elastic enough to allow at least the sales and charting giants such as Houston and Carey in.
 
#11 ·
Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston rock about as hard as a bowl of cottage cheese. This whole thing is a farce. Why don't they just induct every million selling artist ever signed to a corporate label and be done with it?
 
#12 ·
"Rock and Roll" is undefined. So long as that is the case, let there be at least some concession on the part of the in-crowd doing the picking to the fact that, as popular music, mass music, LCD music--if that is the term that most pleases--sales count, hits count, filling arenas counts, and these facts should have a place in deciding who's in, who's out. There are cult figures who are touted as having influenced this or that well-known Rock or Pop artist or group, but whose sales and actual audience were miniscule and whose actual influence cannot be detected in the work of those who it is claimed are their heirs. I lay much of this at the feet of Rock critics, many of whom really do not like popular music and wandered into Rock criticism from other fields, looking for easy work and the chance to be First in Pompeii when they could not be Second in Rome.

Check out this listing of unit sales by group/artist:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists
 
#13 ·
Wow, never thought I'd feel like I would have to defend Whitney here. I included her simply for her ability as a vocalist and nothing more. Could she use her voice any less effectively than James Jamerson could use his instrument???? I'm not seeing much difference there. A powerful voice that could keep the same tone across a wide range. Certainly a gifted vocalist!
 
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#14 ·
Pat Benatar - Fine vocalist. Had a few good rock songs. Nothing special beyond that (though I have awfully fond memories of my dad and I jamming Heartbreaker back in the day).

Dave Matthews Band - They vacillated between a mediocre jam band and a mediocre pop band. I don't think they're HOF material.

Depeche Mode - A massively influential electronic band whose impact is still being felt in pop music today. Not a personal favorite, but they deserve to be in there.

The Doobie Brothers - Borderline band (leaning YES). I really enjoy them, but they very much feel "of their time" and I don't think they had much impact/influence on future rock.

Whitney Houston - Not a fan, but she deserves a spot. Her and Mariah Carey pretty much defined the modern concept of a vocal powerhouse diva.

Judas Priest - Should've been in long ago. One can make a case that, outside Sabbath, Zeppelin, and Purple, JP had the biggest impact on the future of hard rock and metal.

Kraftwerk - Absolutely deserves in. Again, not a huge fan, but they were to the 80s what Depeche Mode was to the 90s.

MC5 - Another borderline (leaning no). The problem with most punk bands is that their legacy is often dependent upon one album that tended to be more influential in concept than good in execution.

Motörhead - Also borderline (leaning yes). I love Motorhead, but they're somewhat to metal what AC/DC was to classic rock; dependable but samey.

Nine Inch Nails - Probably deserves in though, again, I'm not a fan. They were an awfully big force in the 90s.

The Notorious B.I.G. - I don't care for rap but his reputation is pretty unquestioned in the world of hip-hop.

Rufus featuring Chaka Khan - Not very familiar.

Todd Rundgren - I like what I've heard of Rundgren, but I'm not familiar enough to weigh in.

Soundgarden - Borderline (leaning no). Badmotorfinger and Superunknown were great albums, but I don't think either were generation-defining the way, say, Nirvana's Nevermind, Pearl Jam's Ten, or Alice In Chains's Dirt was.

T. Rex - Probably yes. They were one of the big figures in 70s glam rock.

Thin Lizzy - Very much yes. Tragically underrated and underappreciated for how versatile and consistently excellent they were. They're also one of the "secret" influences on metal given how much they pioneered the duel lead guitar sound.

*************

To sum up (my opinion):

Definitely yes: Depeche Mode, Whitney Houston, Judas Priest, Kraftwerk, Notorious B.I.G., Thin Lizzy

Probably eventually: Doobie Brothers, Motorhead, Nine Inch Nails, T. Rex

Probably not: Pat Benatar, DMB, MC5, Soundgarden

If I was actually making predictions, I feel like Depeche Mode, Whitney Houston, Kraftwerk, and B.I.G will make it, but I'm doubtful about the others.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Who will actually get in -

1.) Whitney Houston
2.) Rufus wit Chaka Khan
3.) The Notorious B.I.G.
4.) Depeche Mode
5.) Judas Priest

This is what 2020's induction (not nomination - induction) class would look like if the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was located somewhere - anywhere - in Canada and we as a nation collectively decided that we needed to induct 15 names instead of 5 to correct the historic injustices done to the following overlooked artists by the musical-industrial complex located in Cleveland, Ohio -

Kate Bush

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer

Fairport Convention

The Guess Who

Carole King

Jethro Tull

Love

The Monkees

Mott the Hoople

New York Dolls

Harry Nilsson

Gram Parsons

Carly Simon

Television

Warren Zevon
 
#29 ·
You say that like it's a weird idea and not a widely accepted one.
A composer like Bartok took inspiration from the popular music of his time. Do you think that those songs were popular like Michael Jackson? Or what about the field recordings made by Alan Lomax. Or what about a lot of poor bluesmen. How would you define that? It's still popular music, like a lot of folk music around the world. I know you're a fan of flamenco. Would you say that it's not popular music?
 
#31 ·
Here are the top 50 of the Wikipedia listing of artists and groups by their measurements of popularity (see the article), offered here as fodder for speculation and cogitation. I am not suggesting that units moved be the only criterion, but it shows--to me anyway--that The Public is not always wrong when it comes to "worthwhile" popular music.

The Beatles
Elvis Presley
Michael Jackson
Madonna
Elton John
Led Zeppelin
Pink Floyd
Eminem
Mariah Carey
The Eagles
Taylor Swift
Queen
Whitney Houston
Céline Dion
AC/DC
The Rolling Stones
Garth Brooks
Drake
Ed Sheeran
Billy Joel
U2
Phil Collins
Aerosmith
ABBA
Frank Sinatra
Barbra Streisand
Katy Perry
Justin Bieber
Kanye West
Bruce Springsteen
Bruno Mars
Jay-Z
Metallica
Lady Gaga
Adele
Fleetwood Mac
Bee Gees
Lil Wayne
Maroon 5
Chris Brown
Beyoncé
Coldplay
Linkin Park
B'z
Bon Jovi
Britney Spears
Rod Stewart
Guns N' Roses
Backstreet Boys
 
#36 ·
Personally I think that a lot of those names (with exceptions obviously) make garbage and some of the worst popular music out there, who would not have been even a small fraction of their popularity if it wasn't for their look or other things not connected to artistic merit so...
 
#45 ·
You wonder why so many people go so far off the deep end, especially in America, and all you have to do is see what so many people view as "culture." Listen to ee cummings recite his poetry on YT, and you can see how far we've fallen. I think culture should be a type of mandatory thing that all people must be exposed to in school, like it used to be, somewhat.
 
#33 ·
Todd Rundgren.

The fact that he is not already 'inducted' and features in a list of nominees that includes a fine range of mediocrity is remarkable. For the best part of 50 years the man has made such a contribution as songwriter, musician, bandleader and producer.
 
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#37 ·
Seconded... however Todd's almost pathological inability to disguise his unbridled contempt may be somewhat of a hindrance towards his gaining admission -

""I didn't expect it and have never cared about it. The hardest thing was keeping my fans' expectations within reasonable bounds because they are very naive about it. I'm not; It's some weird Illuminati thing and nobody understands how it works and who does the voting and the nominee selections and all that sort of crap."

"I'm not looking for some organization to acknowledge me, somehow. Besides, the Hall of Fame doesn't make any sense to me because musicians don't have to retire. Athletes retire, and that's when they go into the Hall of Fame, because they're not playing anymore. But everybody (the Rock Hall) is inducting now is still playing, so how can you say you've got the measure of them? You don't. So, no, I really don't care."

"I've never really taken the whole thing seriously. I've never watched any of those shows. I don't pay attention to who wins. I do recognize it as an exercise for the fans, especially at this phase, and I'm happy they have the opportunity to make their declarations about who they think should be in and that sort of thing -- the reality being all those fan votes equal one vote out of a thousand ballots or whatever it is. I have no idea what the ultimate outcome will be, so I don't want to invest myself in it."

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/8533026/todd-rundgren-rock-hall-fame-nomination
 
#39 · (Edited)
How about a Rock and Roll Hall of Obscurity? Nomination and possible inclusion only after 25 years of public "presence" but sales falling below a key trigger point. That way my two recently mentioned faves--Tiny Lights and Eat--are in! The overall story would be "Unpopular Music". We might meet a number of current RARHOF members in the Hall of Obscurity.......
 
#44 ·
There is a range of human grokiness. If you could plot it out, you'd get a bell curve. The ability to write to appeal to the broader range of people on either side of that curve....is an art form in of itself.

Which is why you don't have hot shot graduate students in composition making it in pop music, getting rich from their sales, and retiring to Arles to write their 12 tone developing variation masterpieces.:D:D:D
 
#47 · (Edited)
The only ones I'm interested in seeing enshrined is the dynamic Pat Benatar and her talented long-time husband, Neil Geraldo. She's fantastic. Gutsy yet vulnerable. I've considered her first-rate as a vocalist for years and she's still actively performing with her husband. I believe they should be enshrined together because they have been married for 35 years and created so much great music together. If she gets in and he doesn't I believe that would be entirely unfair and could be very hard on their marriage, plus he's deserving anyway as one of the top guitarists in rock. I believe this is the year for both of them. Her performance of "Hell is for Children" is moving, outspoken and brilliant:



Another personal favorite is her brilliant performance of Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights":



Her voice was operatically trained and it shows.
 
#48 ·
Really, the only two artists I'd personally really like to see get in are Judas Priest and Thin Lizzy. I feel like Priest will get in eventually, but I'm not as sure about Lizzy. They're mostly just known for The Boys Are Back in Town (and maybe Jailbreak for classic rock radio listeners), but anyone who's bothered to go deeper would realize how versatile they were. It's hard to really appreciate that versatility with a few picks, but to give an idea:


 
#49 ·
Now this ladies and gentlemen, this is why Todd deserves election into the HOF: First, he wrote this incredible song, second, that's a hell of a vocal performance he gives live, and finally, for his choice of backup singers. Watch, you'll thank me!

 
#50 · (Edited)
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