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Thread: Discussion: The 2020 Talk Classical Top Recommended Opera CDs and DVDs

  1. #16
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    Do the 100 operas we are going to vote our favourite recordings of have to be our 100 favourite operas? Could they be the ones we consider the most important operas and therefore those that it is worth voting for? My favourite operas may not have many recordings in some cases and so it may not be worth putting them to a vote.

    If we were to nominate our 20 favourites and then the top 10 from everybody's nominations are chosen until we have 100 operas, does it matter what order they are in? I mean do we have to rank them from 1 (the favourite of favourites) to 100 being bottom of the list. In order to vote for our recordings we only need 100 operas and an order to go through them, but that could be any order. OR do we want a ranked list of our 100 favourite operas (which would be interesting in itself) AND then our favourite recordings of our favourite operas?

    Do ask for further explanation if this isn't clear.

    N.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    Do the 100 operas we are going to vote our favourite recordings of have to be our 100 favourite operas? Could they be the ones we consider the most important operas and therefore those that it is worth voting for? My favourite operas may not have many recordings in some cases and so it may not be worth putting them to a vote.
    I would vote for my favourite operas since I just don't know the rest of the repertoire. I have ranked in my list up to 88 different operas. I would only reccomend what I know about, but this is a good debate. I can't be in the "most musically important" side but I undertstand that a majority would vote that way. However, I would find it better to consider a reccomendation based on our tastes. There are indeed many works that I'll have to pass from because I don't know enough recordings.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    If we were to nominate our 20 favourites and then the top 10 from everybody's nominations are chosen until we have 100 operas, does it matter what order they are in? I mean do we have to rank them from 1 (the favourite of favourites) to 100 being bottom of the list. In order to vote for our recordings we only need 100 operas and an order to go through them, but that could be any order.
    In my first post I was in favour, because of scrolling and making search easier for readers, of ignoring the top 100 rank when we do our recordings reccomendations, so the running order of voting and final presentation would only consider the date of premiere.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    In my first post I was in favour, because of scrolling and making search easier for readers, of ignoring the top 100 rank when we do our recordings reccomendations, so the running order of voting and final presentation would only consider the date of premiere.
    Putting our favourite recordings for the operas in chronological order is a great idea!

    N.

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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    I want to open now that discussion, especially focused on the choice of the Top 100 Opera compositions. And to express a couple of points from my own opinion.

    • I volunteer myself to design, code and post the results of the Recordings poll, with wide pictures, harmonic typography, just limited by the Bulletin features. Most of the posts of the 2015 TC Winners have broken links.
    • I don't think we should do a rank of 100 operas from best to "worst", but rather just come up a list of the 100 TC favourite operas. The Order of voting and also results would only be conditioned by the date of premiere, from older to newer (we could also open a thread to clear any doubt about the dates and running order anyway).
    Maybe I didn't make myself clear Conte. Here's the original post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    ^^



    Maybe I didn't make myself clear Conte. Here's the original post.
    No, it's totally clear, I'd just forgotten that and got sidetracked due to some of the other comments. So, when are we going to start nominating our 20 favourite operas for the list?

    N.

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  9. #21
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    ^^

    If I just had a week to be able to watch Die Frau Ohne Schatten... , plus Capriccio, etc. I wrongly thought all R. Strauss Operas were going to be like Der Rosenkavalier.

    Will we rule out Die Fledermaus again? And we should decide whether the Ring counts as one or 4 operas. Let's keep this thread up so more members can see it before doing anything.

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    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd be in favour of keeping it to pure operas, no operettas and so on.

    If we are going for a chronological list of 100 operas, rather than a (anyway dubious) ranking from 1-100, I'd be in favour of keeping the Ring as one entry, since there would be no unfair competitive advantage for combining the four.
    I treat my music like I treat my pets. It’s something to own, care about and curate with attention to detail. From a blog by hjr.

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  12. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    Personally, I'd be in favour of keeping it to pure operas, no operettas and so on.

    If we are going for a chronological list of 100 operas, rather than a (anyway dubious) ranking from 1-100, I'd be in favour of keeping the Ring as one entry, since there would be no unfair competitive advantage for combining the four.
    Here's an idea, it's inconceivable that the Ring wouldn't be chosen, what about treating it as one opera for the 100 number, but when it comes to choosing our favourite recordings listing it as five separate entries so that we put forward our favourite complete cycles and then our favourite of each opera? Otherwise some very good stand alone recordings of the operas (e.g. Furtwangler's studio Walkure) won't have a chance in the running. The Ring also has to be considered as a complete entity as most people are interested in the work as a cycle to be taken as a whole. So strictly speaking we would be voting on 104 operas, but with 4 of them considered twice in two different modes (surely not a problem, though?)

    N.

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    Senior Member vivalagentenuova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Will we rule out Die Fledermaus again? And we should decide whether the Ring counts as one or 4 operas. Let's keep this thread up so more members can see it before doing anything.
    Interesting questions. Fledermaus wouldn't be too high on my list anyway, so I don't really have a personal stake. Still, I've been thinking about the grounds for excluding it, and it seems like we'd have to just make hard and fast genre distinction between opera and operetta. But then I think about, say, the Magic Flute and what separates it from operettas, other than quality?

    Anyway, the Ring should definitely be treated as four separate operas if the final list is going to have any kind of order of preference. Das Rheingold, good as it is, would end up in a much lower spot on my list than Siegfried. I wouldn't like having to group them all. In any case, I would like to be able to pick and choose recordings for the different operas. If it's just chronological, I'm sure all four will be on the list anyway, so it's a moot point. At least the recordings part should still be split up as someone else said already. EDIT: Just saw The Conte already said a lot of that. Well, I second it!

    I also think everybody should vote for their favorites only. I'm always much more interested in hearing what people actually like than what they think is generally considered important. One can find many lists that reflect the latter on the internet, but only we can make a list that reflects our preferences. In any case, I think the purpose of the recommendations would be to show new members like me and each other what we like, which will hopefully help fuel discussion. A list of operas we think are generally considered important seems less likely to fuel interesting discussions.
    Last edited by vivalagentenuova; Nov-03-2019 at 17:12.

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    Oh, and it just occurred to me: what about Il trittico? I think the same reasoning applies to it that applies to the Ring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vivalagentenuova View Post
    Oh, and it just occurred to me: what about Il trittico? I think the same reasoning applies to it that applies to the Ring.
    That's a good point, however are there that many recordings of the single operas? (Although some may want to mix and match from different sets of the complete triptych.)

    N.

  18. #27
    Senior Member vivalagentenuova's Avatar
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    That's a good point, however are there that many recordings of the single operas? (Although some may want to mix and match from different sets of the complete triptych.)
    I would certainly mix and match, and there actually are a number of recordings of the individual operas that are quite good, e.g., a one-off Suor Angelica with Carteri in top form, a Tabarro with an outstanding turn by Clara Petrella as Giorgetta etc..

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  20. #28
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    I was going to review all the Trittico recordings soon, and many of them are spares.

    I think it's a fair point to save three slots to other operas rather than faving four entire slots for Wagner Operas we all know are going to be considered.

    I wouldn't consider a contradiction to vote for a Ring in a single slot and let the Trittico operas compete against the others alone.
    Last edited by Granate; Nov-03-2019 at 19:04.

  21. #29
    Senior Member lluissineu's Avatar
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    Good. I'll be ready to vote as son as my compatriot Granate kicks off The poll. I must warn that I listen Mainly to orchestral music and I know way more orchestral pieces than opera.

    Please make sure before starting that all rules are understood.



    I bet it Will be a race between Verdians and Wagnerians.

  22. #30
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Qué tal Iluissineu. Long time no hear. I've been taking a gap year from Opera after the French and Russian feast. I spent the last year diving into symphonists, so I could know way more about opera but it is a bit tiresome. I even listened to my favourite Verdi Macbeth out of the blue between Schubert works and I was unmoved.

    We should keep debating the ideas here. I would just tell people that while we discuss the rules, that we come up with a top+100 of Operas and we spread the word to other members who'd like to participate. 2015's first round had lots of members involved, I don't know if they persisted because the thread has +50 pages.

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