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Discussion: The 2020 Talk Classical Top Recommended Opera CDs and DVDs

103K views 661 replies 34 participants last post by  Granate 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello. It's been 4 years since this forum last agreeded on a top 100 Operatic works and voted on polls to choose their favourite and most reccomended recordings. On the ocassion of the 5 year anniversary in 2020, we could reopen a new process and poll.

There haven't been many audio operatic releases during this time, but members have changed significantly and many of the opera fans online weren't part of this forum by 2014 when it all started (2nd edition o be more precise). Although controversial things like Opera Depot and Youtube have helped to raise the concern about historical performances, the most significant change in the operatic market apart from composition has been the load of Opera DVDs and Blu-Rays that have been released. I think it's in order to make a new poll about our favourite recordings but I would also like that we all discuss our favourite compositions, sharing room with all our biases for composition eras.

I don't know how we should organise to choose the Top 100 opera. I'm in favour of opening a Game thread. I would love members like Art Rock, Bulldog and science to share their reccomendations for a process like this. I do remember that for the last poll of recordings, once we all had the top 100 compositions, we opened a thread where a moderator presented a work and members had like 5 days to post (not vote in a poll) their favourite recordings on CD and DVD (if they had an opinion, as they could pass). We could repeat that.

I want to open now that discussion, especially focused on the choice of the Top 100 Opera compositions. And to express a couple of points from my own opinion.

  • I volunteer myself to design, code and post the results of the Recordings poll, with wide pictures, harmonic typography, just limited by the Bulletin features. Most of the posts of the 2015 TC Winners have broken links.
  • I don't think we should do a rank of 100 operas from best to "worst", but rather just come up a list of the 100 TC favourite operas. The Order of voting and also results would only be conditioned by the date of premiere, from older to newer (we could also open a thread to clear any doubt about the dates and running order anyway).
I think we have more than enough with 12 months to get our new Winners thread. I would make the effort to include the ASINs of all the products or just warn that the winners are OOP.

2011 Thread of 272 TCs Favourite operas
There's a thread for the 101-272 rank inside, but I can't find the thread for the order of Top 100.
 
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#159 ·
Wow, even more? Ok... I now have the time to count the nominations of the Top 100+ while I listen to the ultra-expanded Don Carlos conducted by Bertrand de Billy in Vienna. Worth it for the orchestra alone.
 
#168 · (Edited)
Well, after so many weeks of polls, I was so relieved to stop counting. I still need to untie a few operas but you know there will be a lot of ties.

Wildthing, it's not about you, but the reason for this Opera poll was to update the survey of tastes that members had in this forum. It could have been made a point about asking for musical reasons instead of "favourites", but oh, in one month before starting, none of those people cared, and when they want to complain about the Falstaff scandal it's too late and there's a lot of work done. This time the Recordings poll will use the new 150 list and should be published (rather than voted) by order of premiere.

You know I'm too ignorant to take part in any poll about works or composers. I simply don't know enough, but I think I have known enough different Operas to set a list of "favourites" and confront it with others.
 
#161 ·
I believe the reason for the 2015 remake list was to offer an oppurtunity for a broader spectrum and larger pool of voters, since the original list was compiled by about a dozen users in the opera forum. For whatever reason, this latest attempt just didn't gain much attention or interest, and the participation was quite low, especially towards the end where the list is basically reflecting the tastes of...5, 6 users?

The results have certainly been interesting to say the least, but I don't see any reason why it should replace either of the other lists as a stickied "recommendation" list. The first two lists are far more diverse and inclusive, especially in regards to baroque and 20th/21st century works.
 
#178 · (Edited)
Hello. I've been thinking for a while of just kicking off the Recordings poll. I still need to send to the mod the 200+ list. You know how I ended mentally about this. Yesterday and today it's like I'm having an argument with a "friend" and reflecting about my life again.

I would need to send all the boards and results to the new laptop since I'm using it more than the old one. I'm particularly not in a mood for Opera listening although from time to time I'm listening to my CD recordings. Today's Knappertsbusch Bayreuth 1955 Höllander.

Since we are mostly all in lockdown, should we think again about a faster pace since there are less posibilities we miss out? Also, it's like when it ends the quarantine, the last thing we want to do is to keep logging in and voting every day... What do you think?

I should combine this with Home-working and my final masters project which has kicked off too.

I'm definetely about 1 opera every two days, but I don't know if you think we should do 2.

About the first post, in which we would start voting for Wagner's Ring, we would we voting for two days for the entire Ring on CD and DVD, and then two for each of the single operas included on CD. That makes 10 days in which everyone would be welcome to enjoy and could place their votes within those ten days... Is it a good idea?
 
#186 · (Edited)
Draft for Final process of the 2020 Opera on CD and DVD poll

Voting process: idem for CDs and DVD

  • 6 points available (integers!) for members to allocate up to 6 opera recordings or performances.
  • Please, don't post pictures, but text with Conductor - Orchestra, and date or performers if necessary
  • 48h to deliver the votes in each Operatic work (new poll every 2 days)
  • Do not post if you pass from the work
  • Votes in advance are accepted on DM. Please check the 2020 Opera Recommendations list (1-150) and send it to me.
Number of threads: New one every 10 operas 1-10, then a single one for positions 101-150

Ties: the recording with equal points but more members voting beats the other.

Exceptions in the process: 2-part voting rounds: complete cycle and spare operas

Der Ring Des Nibelungen: nominate list for the best cyle on CD and DVD
  • Das Rheingold: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
  • Die Walküre: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
  • Siegfried: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
  • Götterdämmerung: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
Il Trittico: nominate list for the best cycle on CD and DVD
  • Il tabarro: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
  • Suor Angelica: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
  • Gianni Schichi: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
Licht: nominate list for the best cycle on CD and DVD

Example

April 1st

Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen on CD
  • Solti WPO - 3p
  • Karajan BPO - 1p
  • Janowski SKD - 1p
  • Thielemann WStO - 1p
Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen on DVD
  • Haenchen De Nederlandse Opera - 4p
  • Levine Met 1991 - 1p
  • Barenboim Bayreuth 91-92 - 1p
April 3rd

Wagner - Das Rheingold on CD
  • Konwitschny ROH CG 1959 - 6p
April 5th

Wagner - Die Walküre on CD
  • Böhm Bayreuth Philips 1967 - 5p
  • Leinsdorf LSO - 1p
April 7th

Wagner - Siegfried on CD
  • Keilberth Bayreuth 1955 - 1p
  • Keilberth Bayreuth 1953 - 1p
  • Keilberth Bayreuth 1952 - 1p
  • Furtwängler Scala 50 - 1p
  • Sawallisch BaySO Warner EMI - 1p
  • Haitink Bayerischen Rundfunks - 1p
April 9th

Wagner - Götterdämmerung on CD
  • Solti WPO - 2p
  • Karajan BPO - 2p
  • Konwitschny ROH CG - 2p
April 11th

Berlioz - Les Troyens on CD
  • Nelson Strasbourg - 5p
  • Dutoit Montréal - 1p
Berlioz - Les Troyens on DVD
  • Pappano ROH CG - 3p
  • Gergiev Valencia - 3p
 
#189 ·
Voting process: idem for CDs and DVD
Please, don't post pictures, but text with Conductor - Orchestra, and date or performers if necessary
I do like pictures, but it certainly can clog up the thread, and some years out many of them may be gone. However, I would recommend that when we post the performance, we can link it to a picture for those (like me) who love to look at pictures, and it may be that a particular release has better sound.
 
#190 ·
^^

If you mean the results of the Recording poll, I'll try to look myself or talk with the mods for a shared image account that holds all the covers of the recordings, uploaded by me. That way they shouldn't get down by the years.
 
#194 ·
Ah, good point. Rather than linking in the voting thread, we would only like pictures in the results thread. There it would be a good thing to include images in the posts. Often I visit those old results threads to see what is listed before buying a recording. It is nice to see images and not just text.
 
#192 ·
It's a good question, but I would inlude anything that has been marketed on CD or DVD. Maybe you mean about Live productions that we have attended. If there isn't anything taped on that that is DVD, Bluray or even video on demand and streamable, it shouldn't count.

Probably I should be more specific on that.



For example, I'm going to give either 4 or 5 points to this rarity. It is a live performance, but it has been released on CD and can be listened nowadays by anyone willing to pay the price or just stream by Spotify, Youtube or Tidal if it were.
 
#195 ·
I like the idea of restricting it to commercial recordings. I guess they can be out of print, as long as some are on the used market. I have gotten some of the niche 'private' label recordings, but typically don't keep them in my regular listening rotations.
 
#199 ·
That explains something. I think Walburga Wegner had some bad fame after other live performances in the 50s, but I wondered why didn't Poleri go further.

If Conte is right, then I didn't get the point of the SixFootScowl post, so anything that has been released on cd would count (for example that Davis Philips Troyens that is still unissued after a very long time).
 
#201 ·
I dunno, Operadepot seems like fair game--we certainly spend enough time talking about them. There are a couple of operas where I'd pick Operadepot recordings first, and those recordings are even more easily accessible for people reading the recommendations than some of the rarer out of print stuff I may also be recommending.
 
#202 ·
I am fine with it. I don't want to rock any boats. The main thing is we do the voting and make a final list. There could be some great recordings in the Operadepot et.al. category, and it may be especially useful where there are precious few commercial recordings of a work available.
 
#206 ·
I've been getting busy with many things outside of this, especially my instagram. Also work. It's my fault. I've compromised myself to too many things. I need to find out the time to create the thread and let the voting begin. That means to put another schedule on myself since I'm designing templates to recommend a music album every day. Not to mention to start a new fitness life with a jump rope and make a change in my life.
 
#207 ·
Commence?

Hello Guys

I'm now trying to space out from things related to design and video. I'm not in an opera mood at all. A friend has even told me off about my compulsive buying of music. But probably it is time to start developing the Recordings Poll based on the Top 150 list. Because of being busy, I won't really count the results in a post inmediately but I must make sure all the votes are correct.

Tomorrow I'll put myself to create the excel files for counting the votes, plus my own list of votes based on my notes and writing the opening post and instructions for the poll.

Will you join me? First week should be dedicated to the Ring. 2 days for the Entire ring, and 2 days for each opera from it. Is it right? I need to check the conclusions we reached again haha.

Starting next monday.

Sorry, family is safe but I've had better times myself.
 
#209 ·
Ok. I made my voting list for Operas 1-20. It's been demanding.

The List of rules for the thread is also written down based on the discussion that happened here. Instead of 5 days for the ring and 2 for each Ring Opera, we should do 5 days for the 4 Ring Operas and 2 days for the Ring.

Is it better?
 
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