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Thread: The Major Second Is Not Dissonant

  1. #61
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post
    The drama in this thread is actually funny The choice of words in the context is funny
    not just "put", but "condemn"."What did I ever do to you??? Why would you condemn me to such misery???"I mistakenly read it at first as "oh come on, MISTER." MR sure is skillful in frustrating people with constant unpleasant dissonances in his posts
    Forsooth! Methinks the clavier is hammered again!

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  3. #62
    Junior Member MAXSWAGGER's Avatar
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    The context determines the sound.

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXSWAGGER View Post
    The context determines the sound.
    Contexts are ideas, cerebral. Sound is sound. I'm sure John Cage would be offended by this.

    Most dissonant intervals to most consonant intervals, within one octave:
    1. minor seventh (C-Bb) 9:16
    2. major seventh (C-B) 8:15
    3. major second (C-D) 8:9
    4. minor sixth (C-Ab) 5:8
    5. minor third (C-Eb) 5:6
    6. major third (C-E) 4:5
    7. major sixth (C-A) 3:5
    8. perfect fourth (C-F) 3:4
    9. perfect fifth (C-G) 2:3
    10. octave (C-C') 1:2
    11. unison (C-C) 1:1

    The steps of our tonal scales, and the "functions" of the chords built thereon, are the direct result of interval ratios, all in relation to a "keynote" or unity of 1; the intervals not only have a dissonant/consonant quality determined by their ratio, but also are given a specific scale degree (function) and place in relation to "1" or the Tonic. This is where all "linear function" originated, and is still manifest as ratios (intervals), which are at the same time, physical harmonic phenomena.

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    Senior Member robin4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Contexts are ideas, cerebral. Sound is sound. I'm sure John Cage would be offended by this.

    Most dissonant intervals to most consonant intervals, within one octave:

    1. minor seventh (C-Bb) 9:16
    2. major seventh (C-B) 8:15
    3. major second (C-D) 8:9
    4. minor sixth (C-Ab) 5:8
    5. minor third (C-Eb) 5:6
    6. major third (C-E) 4:5
    7. major sixth (C-A) 3:5
    8. perfect fourth (C-F) 3:4
    9. perfect fifth (C-G) 2:3
    10. octave (C-C') 1:2
    11. unison (C-C) 1:1

    The steps of our tonal scales, and the "functions" of the chords built thereon, are the direct result of interval ratios, all in relation to a "keynote" or unity of 1; the intervals not only have a dissonant/consonant quality determined by their ratio, but also are given a specific scale degree (function) and place in relation to "1" or the Tonic. This is where all "linear function" originated, and is still manifest as ratios (intervals), which are at the same time, physical harmonic phenomena.




    Tom Sutcliff has an honours degree in Physics from Manchester University and a Masters degree in Music Theory and Analysis from Goldsmiths College (London University).

    He now lives in London, England and has spent most of his career as a computer manager.

    He has been interested in and researched musical theory for many years. He studied flute privately and has performed with several semi-professional orchestras in the London area.

    https://www.harmony.org.uk/book/voic...dissonance.htm

  6. #65
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    My chart showed diatonic (white-note) intervals, so for completeness, I will include the minor second and tritone.

    Most dissonant intervals to most consonant intervals, within one octave:

    1. Tritone (augmented fourth) (C-F#) 45:32
    2. Tritone (diminished fifth) (C-Gb) 25:18
    3. minor second (C-Db) 16:15
    4. minor seventh (C-Bb) 9:16

    5. major seventh (C-B) 8:15
    6. major second (C-D) 8:9
    7. minor sixth (C-Ab) 5:8
    8. minor third (C-Eb) 5:6
    9. major third (C-E) 4:5
    10. major sixth (C-A) 3:5
    11. perfect fourth (C-F) 3:4
    12. perfect fifth (C-G) 2:3
    13. octave (C-C') 1:2
    14. unison (C-C) 1:1


    "The steps of our tonal scales, and the "functions" of the chords built thereon, are the direct result of interval ratios, all in relation to a "keynote" or unity of 1; the intervals not only have a dissonant/consonant quality determined by their ratio, but also are given a specific scale degree (function) and place in relation to "1" or the Tonic. This is where all "linear function" originated, and is still manifest as ratios (intervals), which are at the same time, physical harmonic phenomena."
    -Harry Partch, from Genesis of a New Music

    Credentials:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Partch
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jan-22-2020 at 15:49.

  7. #66
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    In standard practice, the intervals are in this order:

    unison (C-C) 1:1
    octave (C-C') 1:2
    perfect fifth (C-G) 2:3
    major third (C-E) 4:5
    minor third (C-Eb) 5:6
    major sixth (C-A) 3:5
    minor sixth (C-Ab) 5:8
    major second (C-D) 8:9
    minor seventh (C-Bb) 9:16
    perfect fourth (C-F) 3:4
    augmented fourth (C-F#) 45:32
    diminished fifth (C-Gb) 25:18
    minor second (C-Db) 16:15
    major seventh (C-B) 8:15

    There are no problems between the "reality vs. theory" of interval ratios until we reach the perfect fourth, which I have always maintained has no place in a C major scale, which, like all scales, should ostensibly reinforce its harmonic key center (the starting note of the C major scale, C).

    This "perfect fourth" as "mildly dissonant" differs from its true harmonic identity and sound; this classification is an artificial compromise based on cerebral procedures and rules, designed to prevent "F" from becoming a new key center. "F" is thus seen as a "suspension" of the C major triad, overriding its natural tendency to become a new key center, via E-F, with E as leading tone.

    In my world, dissonance/consonance are comparative terms (not absolute or arbitrary values), based on
    the real world of physics, waves, and beating membranes of eardrums.

    I.e., sound, not theory.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jan-22-2020 at 20:21.

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