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Thread: Orchestration

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heck148 View Post
    interesting....that really doesn't relate to my own experience, or that of most performers I know, or have worked with...first off. if you're a busy musician, you are playing tons of music, overlapping services, and often obscure or relatively unknown composers...trying to commune, or spiritually connect with each and every composer is rather impossible...I guess if you play only a few concerts a year, you could spend the time probing the psyche of the composer....for the workaday musician
    that really doesn't work. we communicate by way of the printed score, what the composer wrote...we use our knowledge, training and experience to perform to the best of our ability....technical ability is extremely important, but so is training, and so is "spirit", or musical sense, awareness....we always try to plug into the style, the "personality" of the music, which is a form of connecting to the composer's original expressive content...Considerably different approaches are applied to, say, Mozart, Brahms, Shostakovich. for me, god has nothing to do with it
    What part of 'very natural' and 'the best' don't you understand? You don't need to work at it, you either connect spiritually or you don't. Repetition can make your passion grow to an extent but the passion is a faculty.

    Drive, passion, strength, this is what music is about and a connection to God is what gives you this, because it's not only that but also restraint, goodness, and reason -- composing is tremendously spiritual, and so to properly project, the playing has to be also.

    Whatever you believe in is irrelevant, spirituality is what makes the great composer and the great musician.

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    composing is tremendously spiritual .
    Have you not heard the expression: "Composition is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration"?
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    What part of 'very natural' and 'the best' don't you understand?
    I understand the concepts most thoroughly, but they have nothing to do with the convoluted, contrived pov you've put forth...if it works for you, great....I have no idea what you are talking about, and I'm certainly not going to argue over a premise based upon any "god", a fictitious concept for which there is no evidence whatsoever.
    Enjoy your evening

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Just a note that I was listening, with some attention, to Scheherazade in the car today. What tunes, what harmonies, what orchestration! We’ve all heard this so often that it slides by beneath our consciousness, but…what a smashing work!

    Little wonder that so many composers came to Nikolai to learn orchestration.


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    Back to the original topic - orchestration - one of the things I love about 20th century music is the great development of orchestral sonority....
    we have composers like Vaughan Williams, Prokofieff, Sibelius, who made such great use of the bass instruments - wonderful lines for tuba, bassoons, low clarinets, horns, celli, bass - different combinations - solo or soli...if done poorly, it creates a thick muddy mess....but with the truly skilled orchestrators - like those aforementioned, it expands the timbral range and the melodic pitch range of the orchestra to a huge degree....
    then we have Shostakovich, Ravel, Stravinsky, who so thoroughly and creatively explored the different combinations of instruments....

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  9. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    .....
    ............Drive, passion, strength, this is what music is about and a connection to God is what gives you this, because it's not only that but also restraint, goodness, and reason -- composing is tremendously spiritual, and so to properly project, the playing has to be also.

    Whatever you believe in is irrelevant, spirituality is what makes the great composer and the great musician.

    Not that you imply this outright and being reasonable here, there is surely no supernatural or spiritual exclusivity on the qualities of drive and passion nor reason and goodness - these are also natural, evolutionary human traits. Composing is in a sense spiritual, granted, but not necessarily in the guise of religious dogma or a God of whatever form, variation or sex. A composer needs a lot more than spirituality in his arsenal to achieve greatness, whereas a performer needs a developed artistic sensibility in order to connect with the music, one that is not obliged to be steeped in spirituality. This sensibility is inculcated in formative years through training and becomes enhanced with maturity.

    Other successful options for a composing paradigm are available and one needs to be mindful of them too in all the talk of a God. Of course any variation of belief can be considered vital and valid if it motivates the work but conversely no belief is necessary to create good music. Similarly, belief in a God or a spiritual doctrine does not guarantee a masterpiece nor a decent performance. Hard work and talent does have a chance of achieving those lofty aims on its own though.
    Last edited by mikeh375; Dec-03-2019 at 10:58.

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    The advantage amateur musicians, like myself, is that, even though we may only rehears once a week, we live with a work for several weeks. As a result I will gain insights into a work that I normally not get just by listening to it.

    I understand the plight of the professional. They only have three or four rehearsals and they have to perform. This is why I am in awe of professionals.

    I recently heard the Marine Band perform Maslanka's Child's Garden of Dreams. It was the greatest performance of the work I have ever heard. I was discussing the performance with the conductor after the concert and learned they only spent three days rehearsing it.
    Last edited by arpeggio; Dec-04-2019 at 06:54.
    It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. And I am a very ingenious fellow

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    re combinations, this might be useful. It's a little dry and to the point, but can open the mind to different ways.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orchestral-...5447771&sr=8-1

    This for clarinet..

    https://heatherroche.net/2014/04/04/...-articulation/


    This for a neat intro to all instruments from the Philharmonia Orchestra....

    http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/explore/instruments

    Two sites for the harp...

    https://www.15secondharp.com/writing-for-the-harp

    http://composingforharp.com

    For String techniques....

    https://www.hidersine.com/education/...chnique-videos

    and this...

    https://orchestrationonline.com/orch...stopped-notes/

    Finally and highly recommended.....

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33900...-h/33900-h.htm
    Last edited by mikeh375; Dec-04-2019 at 09:59.

  13. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh375 View Post
    Not that you imply this outright and being reasonable here, there is surely no supernatural or spiritual exclusivity on the qualities of drive and passion nor reason and goodness - these are also natural, evolutionary human traits. Composing is in a sense spiritual, granted, but not necessarily in the guise of religious dogma or a God of whatever form, variation or sex. A composer needs a lot more than spirituality in his arsenal to achieve greatness, whereas a performer needs a developed artistic sensibility in order to connect with the music, one that is not obliged to be steeped in spirituality. This sensibility is inculcated in formative years through training and becomes enhanced with maturity.

    Other successful options for a composing paradigm are available and one needs to be mindful of them too in all the talk of a God. Of course any variation of belief can be considered vital and valid if it motivates the work but conversely no belief is necessary to create good music. Similarly, belief in a God or a spiritual doctrine does not guarantee a masterpiece nor a decent performance. Hard work and talent does have a chance of achieving those lofty aims on its own though.
    It doesn't matter what you believe, I'm not describing a doctrine, it's simply the most straight forward way to explain. Music comes from the spirit, it's something primal and natural, and reason is that as well, you have it or you don't, you can't cultivate something out of thin air.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that composition and performance are gifts, and of course you work, but that doesn't make it better or worse, it's just what you have to do to express your gift. The gift is the ability to feel, to love seemingly without limits.

    Heck148 didn't get that... "trying to commune, or spiritually connect with each and every composer is rather impossible...I guess if you play only a few concerts a year, you could spend the time probing the psyche of the composer."

    You don't need to do that because all composers are human beings, and if you have the gift of empathy and your mind is similar enough, you can connect very easily with their music, you don't need to probe the psyche. In this way music is purely spiritual--it's the only way to explain the immediate connection.

  14. #55
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    I can quite readily connect with composers' music....i don't need to have empathy with them as persons...i dont have the time or energy to commune with them as persons...music-making is not just spiritual....it is physical, intellectual, expressive....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    It doesn't matter what you believe, I'm not describing a doctrine, it's simply the most straight forward way to explain. Music comes from the spirit, it's something primal and natural, and reason is that as well, you have it or you don't, you can't cultivate something out of thin air.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that composition and performance are gifts, and of course you work, but that doesn't make it better or worse, it's just what you have to do to express your gift. The gift is the ability to feel, to love seemingly without limits.

    Heck148 didn't get that... "trying to commune, or spiritually connect with each and every composer is rather impossible...I guess if you play only a few concerts a year, you could spend the time probing the psyche of the composer."

    You don't need to do that because all composers are human beings, and if you have the gift of empathy and your mind is similar enough, you can connect very easily with their music, you don't need to probe the psyche. In this way music is purely spiritual--it's the only way to explain the immediate connection.
    I think I understand what you're saying here, that sort of sense or ear for music, either you have it or you don't, but I don't see it as spiritual, and I believe it can be cultivated over experience, when you hear from great composers. I'm assuming you don't mean that composition is like writing something out already inspiring through some spiritual rapport. It is only a guide in the muck.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    I think I understand what you're saying here, that sort of sense or ear for music, either you have it or you don't, but I don't see it as spiritual, and I believe it can be cultivated over experience, when you hear from great composers. I'm assuming you don't mean that composition is like writing something out already inspiring through some spiritual rapport. It is only a guide in the muck.
    The work is spiritually draining, creativity is closely related to love in that it costs a great deal, but the ideas do come in your head as a gift: it's working them out that drains you, the very acceptance of them is draining, not in the moment but after you're done you feel it.

    But it does come out of something unexplained, there is no plan, no method, inspiration is something mystical, and technique only serves to express it at its full potential, to organize it--that's where reason and taste come in play.

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