Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: Most Absurd Plot

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,544
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Most Absurd Plot

    I know many opera stories stretch belief but Ernani, for me, makes Azucena throwing her own baby in the fire have a real legitimate case -- (she was demented) but he deciding, out of honor, to take his own life if he ever hears a horn blow is beyond rational.
    Last edited by nina foresti; Nov-27-2019 at 15:24.

  2. Likes superhorn, marceliotstein liked this post
  3. #2
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire, England
    Posts
    8,283
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Mozart's L'oca del Cairo (The Goose of Cairo) from 1783. Sheer desperation made him take this garbage on, and presumably total exasperation made him abandon it. The plot - such as it is - is courtesy of Wikipedia:

    Don Pippo, a Spanish Marquess, keeps his only daughter Celidora locked up in his tower. She is betrothed to Count Lionetto, but her true love is Biondello, a wealthy gentleman. Biondello makes a bet with the Marquis that if he can rescue Celidora from the tower within a year he wins her hand in marriage. He succeeds by having himself smuggled into the tower garden inside a large mechanical goose.

    Of course, the best way to rescue someone unnoticed is by wheeling a massive contrivance right up to the tower and using it to gain access, but crucially it has to be in the form of a goose...
    Last edited by elgars ghost; Nov-27-2019 at 19:51. Reason: spelling
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

  4. Likes Woodduck, superhorn liked this post
  5. #3
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    moscow, russia.
    Posts
    994
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nina foresti View Post
    makes Azucena throwing her own baby in the fire have a real legitimate case
    as it is, for the meaning of that implies - you should never intend any harm to a noble.

    the opera Rigoletto has the same kind of message in the ending.

  6. #4
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    moscow, russia.
    Posts
    994
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    everyone be careful to hurry seeing this or that opera plot as irrational.

    first you do some research on the mores of the time.

    people were not stupid back then.

    keep that in mind.

  7. #5
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    14,976
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    everyone be careful to hurry seeing this or that opera plot as irrational.

    first you do some research on the mores of the time.

    people were not stupid back then.

    keep that in mind.
    People are stupid now, so I presume they were also stupid back then.

  8. Likes betterthanfine, IgorS, kineno and 3 others liked this post
  9. #6
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire, England
    Posts
    8,283
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    You're a seasoned opera buff, Woodduck - how about a suggestion or two? Sadly, Zhdanov is offline so I can't ask him the same question.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

  10. #7
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    14,976
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    You're a seasoned opera buff, Woodduck - how about a suggestion or two? Sadly, Zhdanov is offline so I can't ask him the same question.
    Seasoned maybe, but there are members who know more obscure operas than I do. I'm not sure I can beat the OP's suggestion of Ernani. There may be good reasons for committing suicide at one's wedding ceremony, but keeping a promise to a rival for the hand of the woman you're about to marry probably isn't one of them. The whole plot of the opera is convoluted, the soprano is torn into three pieces (figuratively) by three men who want her, and it's only some really good tunes that make the whole thing bearable.

  11. Likes nina foresti liked this post
  12. #8
    Senior Member Open Book's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    842
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    Mozart's L'oca del Cairo (The Goose of Cairo) from 1783. Sheer desperation made him take this garbage on, and presumably total exasperation made him abandon it. The plot - such as it is - is courtesy of Wikipedia:

    Don Pippo, a Spanish Marquess, keeps his only daughter Celidora locked up in his tower. She is betrothed to Count Lionetto, but her true love is Biondello, a wealthy gentleman. Biondello makes a bet with the Marquis that if he can rescue Celidora from the tower within a year he wins her hand in marriage. He succeeds by having himself smuggled into the tower garden inside a large mechanical goose.

    Of course, the best way to rescue someone unnoticed is by wheeling a massive contrivance right up to the tower and using it to gain access, but crucially it has to be in the form of a goose...
    I've never heard of this, I thought you were joking. Maybe this should be under the recent "Operatic Oddities" thread as well. A Trojan chicken, and the male character's name is "Blondie".
    Last edited by Open Book; Nov-27-2019 at 21:04.
    "No one chooses the tuba" - Alexander von Puttkamer

  13. #9
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Next to Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    12,878
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nina foresti View Post
    I know many opera stories stretch belief but Ernani, for me, makes Azucena throwing her own baby in the fire have a real legitimate case -- (she was demented) but he deciding, out of honor, to take his own life if he ever hears a horn blow is beyond rational.
    I don't know Ernani, but I thought Azucena was in Trovatore, and tossed mistakenly tossed her baby into the fire, thinking it was some other baby.
    "Life is too short to spend it wandering in the barren Sahara of musical trash."
    --Sergei Vasilyevich Rachmaninoff

  14. Likes Granate liked this post
  15. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,544
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yes Fritz, that is what I said. A logical case can be made for mistakenly throwing her own baby in the fire as she was so completely distraught with what they did to her mother that she went slightly mad. It seems quite likely that in her mental state she accidentally made the horrible mistake of throwing her own baby in the fire.

  16. #11
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Next to Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    12,878
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nina foresti View Post
    Yes Fritz, that is what I said. A logical case can be made for mistakenly throwing her own baby in the fire as she was so completely distraught with what they did to her mother that she went slightly mad. It seems quite likely that in her mental state she accidentally made the horrible mistake of throwing her own baby in the fire.
    Oh, Now I see. You were comparing to Ernani, not saying it was Ernani. My misread.
    "Life is too short to spend it wandering in the barren Sahara of musical trash."
    --Sergei Vasilyevich Rachmaninoff

  17. #12
    Senior Member Dr. Shatterhand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,174
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Babies thrown onto bonfires, as Charles Osborne suggests, wouldn't have seemed so absurd to Verdi. Russian soldiers attacked his own village of Le Roncole when he was a child; his mother hid with him in the belfry while they killed and looted.

    But, yes, Ernani is improbable. It's meant to be; Hugo was striking a blow for Romanticism, freeing French theatre from the shackles of Classicism.

  18. Likes The Conte liked this post
  19. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY.
    Posts
    1,831
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Suoperhorn's law of opera : The opera has yet too be written with a plot as ridiculous as the things that happen every day in real life .

  20. Likes Woodduck, Fritz Kobus, Ingélou and 2 others liked this post
  21. #14
    Senior Member aussiebushman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    171
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    There may be good reasons for committing suicide at one's wedding ceremony, but keeping a promise to a rival for the hand of the woman you're about to marry probably isn't one of them. The whole plot of the opera is convoluted, the soprano is torn into three pieces (figuratively) by three men who want her, and it's only some really good tunes that make the whole thing bearable.
    I respectfully suggest it may be better to commit suicide BEFORE the wedding. It will save one the trouble of deciding at what stage later on to perform the deed.

    More relevant to the initial question, I am another dedicated opera lover so please bear that in mind when I say that most opera plots are pretty stupid if one wishes to be objective about it. However, Superhorn's comment seems to be highly accurate. Humans are stupid in the main
    Last edited by aussiebushman; Nov-28-2019 at 02:20.

  22. Likes Woodduck liked this post
  23. #15
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    moscow, russia.
    Posts
    994
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nina foresti View Post
    A logical case can be made for mistakenly throwing her own baby in the fire as she was so completely distraught with what they did to her mother that she went slightly mad. It seems quite likely that in her mental state she accidentally made the horrible mistake of throwing her own baby in the fire.
    no, the symbolism of that scene is in the very fact one of the babies was of noble origins.

    it was the heavens, nature and hell itself that prevented any harm occur to him.

    he gets put to death in the end only because his noble brother willed so.

    such is the allegory, and it should be taken as is, with no guess.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •