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Thread: Arnold Schoenberg

  1. #16
    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicalMaestro View Post
    Thank you I'll check it out. I'm looking for small easy scores to study. Any recommendations?
    Perhaps start light with some string music as the string section often plays the most in a score - Elgar, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak Serenades perhaps. Mozart would be a good start too as the language is easily digested and one could learn about simple wind and brass combinations.

    There's a truth to Millions post above about DAWs too. I have Logic and most sample libraries and one can indeed do a good job of recreating combinations and ensembles but it requires much effort and skill in different areas. There are some traps one can fall into too if DAW meddling isn't backed up with real world knowledge.

    For me, I have never once regretted learning the traditional way by listening, writing out in short score passages from great works that impressed or displayed things I didn't know about and keeping my head permanently poked into a score. Some fluency in transposition should be practiced too to facilitate quicker reading of scores.
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jan-19-2020 at 12:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh375 View Post
    Perhaps start light with some string music as the string section often plays the most in a score - Elgar, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak Serenades perhaps. Mozart would be a good start too as the language is easily digested and one could learn about simple wind and brass combinations.

    There's a truth to Millions post above about DAWs too. I have Logic and most sample libraries and one can indeed do a good job of recreating combinations and ensembles but it requires much effort and skill in different areas. There are some traps one can fall into too if DAW meddling isn't backed up with real world knowledge.

    For me, I have never once regretted learning the traditional way by listening, writing out in short score passages from great works that impressed or displayed things I didn't know about and keeping my head permanently poked into a score. Some fluency in transposition should be practiced too to facilitate quicker reading of scores.
    I use a DAW and have some nice samples. But I'm learning the traditional way. I have some music theory knowledge and I have been studying four part harmony. I like the composers you suggested.

  3. #18
    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicalMaestro View Post
    I use a DAW and have some nice samples. But I'm learning the traditional way. I have some music theory knowledge and I have been studying four part harmony. I like the composers you suggested.
    That's great CM, you wont regret it. In my media career, the briefs I received came in the form of many diverse styles of music and not one of them over-awed me, or had me scrambling for creative purchase thanks to my training. Having a strong technical background is such an integral part of composing for ensembles and a solid foundation with which to compose.

    You are probably proficient with a DAW, so why not get hold of some recordings and scores and do some mock-ups. This is doubly beneficial in that you learn orchestration and improve your DAW/Template/production skills at the same time. You will know that strings are hardest to replicate, even with the best on offer, but a lot of instructive study and practice can still be done.

    The more you know and more importantly do, the better you'll be.
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jan-21-2020 at 09:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh375 View Post
    That's great CM, you wont regret it. In my media career, the briefs I received came in the form of many diverse styles of music and not one of them over-awed me, or had me scrambling for creative purchase thanks to my training. Having a strong technical background is such an integral part of composing for ensembles and a solid foundation with which to compose.

    You are probably proficient with a DAW, so why not get hold of some recordings and scores and do some mock-ups. This is doubly beneficial in that you learn orchestration and improve your DAW/Template/production skills at the same time. You will know that strings are hardest to replicate, even with the best on offer, but a lot of instructive study and practice can still be done.

    The more you know and more importantly do, the better you'll be.
    I appreciate all you help. I was just checking out your website and listened to your scores I hope one day I compose something that good. Great work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
    Not sure what you're looking for. A thorough knowledge of theory is essential for writing for orchestra, but writing well for large ensembles is a whole different topic and one fraught with dangers and difficulties. And it depends on what type of music you want to write.

    I assume you're trying to be self-taught? Nothing wrong with that, but it can be tough. For theory, I highly recommend a book written by Ricahrd Franko Goldman: Harmony in Western Music. There is no other book so concise, practical and thorough.

    Orchestration books are notoriously bad at the one thing most people want to learn: how to write for FULL orchestra. All of the books explain the individual instruments and their families. Most do a terrible job of explaining the extraordinarily complex task of writing for the whole shebang. Adler is just as bad as most.

    When I was learning to do it, the best teachers I had were the great composers of the past. The professor I was studying under had me go get scores of the masters and literally copy their score BY HAND onto blank paper with one major change: rewrite it in concert pitch. I got the insider's view on how and why these great composers and orchestrators wrote the way they did. Took a lot of time, but worth every minute. For text books, there was only one that really helped - the very old one by Ebenezer Prout: volume 2 is dedicated to orchestral combination, of course he wrote from a pretty traditional, late romantic point of view. But he explains everything so clearly.

    The other book I found invaluable was one written by John Cacavas: Music Arranging and Orchestration which is written for practical application and how he did it. Very, very useful.

    Another part of the puzzle is something I find very few people do anymore: read every score you can get your hands on. Read it "in your head". Read it along with a recording. You'll be amazed how much you can learn.
    Harmony in Western music is almost like Walter Pistons Harmony book.

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