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Thread: Who will be the next Leonard Bernstein or Herbert von Karajan of this generation?

  1. #76
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    LB & HvK were/are giants. I don't see/hear anything from youngsters potential that would have a chance to approach.

    Even Muti, Boulez, Haitink, the greatest of the living, could not. And another tier below them would include the likes of Barenboim, Harnoncourt, Jansons, Gergiev, Rattle, who still have some years left. They're not going any higher.

    Of the upwardly mobile, Pappano and Harding are two that have impressed me, but I don't envision them as giants one day.

    Perhaps the opportunities for giants are gone. Much in industry and society won't condone such lavishness or chutzpah anymore.

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    Senior Member Haydn man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaneyes View Post
    LB & HvK were/are giants. I don't see/hear anything from youngsters potential that would have a chance to approach.

    Even Muti, Boulez, Haitink, the greatest of the living, could not. And another tier below them would include the likes of Barenboim, Harnoncourt, Jansons, Gergiev, Rattle, who still have some years left. They're not going any higher.

    Of the upwardly mobile, Pappano and Harding are two that have impressed me, but I don't envision them as giants one day.

    Perhaps the opportunities for giants are gone. Much in industry and society won't condone such lavishness or chutzpah anymore.
    I agree,it is difficult with the economics of classical music recording as they now are to see superstar conductors emerging with the trappings of someone like Karajan

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    Senior Member lupinix's Avatar
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    Valery Gergiev, or maybe Dudamel come closest I guess

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  7. #79
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    Those guys come along once in a blue moon. It's like asking who will be the next Beethoven.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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    Senior Member lupinix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    Those guys come along once in a blue moon. It's like asking who will be the next Beethoven.
    It seems people thought Anton Rubinstein was some kind of reincarnation of Beethoven though
    'Many contemporaries felt he bore a striking resemblance to Ludwig van Beethoven. Ignaz Moscheles, who had known Beethoven intimately, wrote, "Rubinstein's features and short, irrepressible hair remind me of Beethoven." Liszt referred to Rubinstein as "Van II."'

    (frankly I like rubinstein a lot more =$)
    Last edited by lupinix; Mar-02-2014 at 23:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lupinix View Post
    It seems people thought Anton Rubinstein was some kind of reincarnation of Beethoven though
    'Many contemporaries felt he bore a striking resemblance to Ludwig van Beethoven. Ignaz Moscheles, who had known Beethoven intimately, wrote, "Rubinstein's features and short, irrepressible hair remind me of Beethoven." Liszt referred to Rubinstein as "Van II."'

    (frankly I like rubinstein a lot more =$)
    There are some conductors like Simon Rattle who have the Beethoven hair style, but that's where the similarity ends.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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    This thread is 9 years old. The most mentioned name was Dudamel. It’s 2018 now and I don’t see him having had the impact of either Karajan or Bernstein. Those two were already giants early on in their career, “the miracle Karajan” etc.

    However, times have also changed. Classical music no longer has the same impact culturally as it did in the first half of the 20th Century. I don’t believe another LB or HvK will come along.

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  14. #83
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    I doubt whether any conductor will have the impact of Bernstein or Karajan. You're right, times have changed and society has changed too. The society which made their stupendous rise possible is no longer in existence. Neither is recording common as then.

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    Yes, times have changed. Karajan and Bernstein came at an age that saw the birth and rise of the recording industry. There was demand back then for audiences whose only access to music back then was through radio broadcasts. Along with classical, we saw the explosion of other types of music - jazz, rock and roll, in the 50s/60s. Then "popular" music took over as younger audiences gravitated towards rock/pop bands. So just purely from commercial impact and recognition/outreach, Karajan and Bernstein were unique. I doubt we will see the likes of them again as demand has changed.

    But thankfully, we still have very talented young conductors who are making music. The ones i'm following:
    Daniel Harding - not at all well-known in the US, but has conducted all the top orchestras in Europe. Seen him with the Vienna Phil, the London Symphony, Bavarian Radio, the Mahler Chamber Orchestra and the New Japan Phil. Simply a wonderful and intelligent conductor. Mesmerising to watch - a protege of Abbado for sure.
    Andris Nelsons - director of Boston Symphony. Saw him doing Alpinesymphonie at Tanglewood last year. Very good. Would definitely see more.
    Yannick Nezet-Seguin - new director of the Met. Very curious
    Gustavo Dudamel - Haven't seen him perform yet.. but based off his CDs, don't see what the fuss is about.. but I'm willing to be patient and keep an open mind.
    Kirill Petrenko - next director of the Berlin Phil. Haven't had the chance to see him.
    All these conductors are in their late 30s/early 40s. Karajan was 48 when he became director of Berlin. Bernstein 39 when he took over from Mitropoulous in New York.

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    I don't think we are going to see any conductors rise to the prominence of the Bernstein, Solti, Karajan level...the music industry is simply different now. LB, GS, HvK were a bridge between the previous generation of the all-powerful ,tyrant conductors, the unquestioned, unchallenged maestros of the podium, who commanded their orchestras with a dictatorial, strong hand - Toscanini, Stokowski, Reiner, Szell, Furtwangler, etc...Bernstein, Solti and Karajan were able to continue this thru force of personality, popularity, musical excellence, extensive opportunities to record major repertoire with many great orchestras, and cooperative orchestra management structures....
    I don't see anyone on the horizon who exhibits that sort of force of personality...there are many fine conductors, who are top-notch musicians, of course...I just don't see the musical climate as supporting the previous generations' podium prominence...nobody is working under major recording company contracts at this point...
    I mean, what has Dudamel or Rattle accomplished that even compares with a Bernstein, Solti...?? Maybe Dudamel will show that extra-special something, we'll see, he's young...Rattle?? I don't think so...
    Last edited by Heck148; Jul-16-2018 at 16:57.

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  18. #86
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    I think the next big thing will have to be female for the culture to embrace a contemporary conductor the way they did Bernstein and von Karajan. How is Barbara Hannigan doing on the radar?
    Last edited by Manxfeeder; Jul-16-2018 at 21:49.

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    Cool Now is the Time

    It's a different world from Toscanini, Solti, Furtwangler, Bernstein and the other autocrats, most of whom I have greatly admired. Nevertheless, I have to say that I have never heard a greater Mahler 8th than Dudamel's and the way he inspires and so admirably holds his tremendous vocal and instrumental forces together. But he's not going to get the same accolades as a Solti because conductors are no longer considered gods and sacred cows of high art in today's global society... The conductors of previous generations had their chance and they made the most of it when the world was in chaos because of political turbulence, racism, and war. There's now a new generation getting its chance and I'm glad to say that I've heard what I consider the definitive performance of this Mahler symphony by Dudamel and it wasn't by one of the immortals. I found it a monumental experience, so I'm unwilling to mourn the past at the expense of today. There are tremendous performances now to be heard and in far better, recorded sound.

    Last edited by Larkenfield; Jul-17-2018 at 04:16.
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    Marin Alsop.
    A brilliant conductor who engages with the audience.

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    Another Female who is making a name for herself and is very dynamic and musical...

    https://cbso.co.uk/who-we-are/our-co...grazinyte-tyla

    +1 for Barbara Hannigan too...

    One regret for me is that I missed Bernstein at a signing in London. I'd been in a studio all day recording and walked right past Tower records where he was, I was just too tired. He died not long after that. Boulez was affectionately known as the French Correction by English musos because of his fabulous ears. Also, Mr Bootlace.
    Last edited by mikeh375; May-31-2019 at 15:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    Who do you think will be the Bernstein or Karajan of this generation? Make your predictions here.
    Nobody. I don't see anyone from the classical world having the cross cultural/musical impact of a Leonard Bernstein in today's world. The classical part has been marginalized in today's pop/junk saturated entertainment world. What major television network is going to produce a program focused around a classical conductor and make him/her a household name? The closest it comes is a 60 Minutes feature on Lang Lang. I just don't see the 21st century repeating the innovations in art and culture that was central to the 20th. Something new must be created. The pinnacles of classical, jazz, pop, blues, and soul music have already been reached. The 21st century must create its own scenario.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

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