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Thread: Who will be the next Leonard Bernstein or Herbert von Karajan of this generation?

  1. #106
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blondheim View Post
    I agree that it shouldn't be something that we want. Norman Lebrecht's article about Karajan illustrates well the dangers of mega-stars to this section of the recording industry.
    Lebrect is a totally biased article which basically says that successful people who sell too many recordings are bad for the recording industry. I’ve always thought that a bit of an oxymoron. Like saying the Beatles were bad for EMI

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  3. #107
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    The days of Karajan and Bernstein are gone forever. They rose to fame with the increasing wealth of the boomers during the sixties and the television and LP stereo recordings and they were still around when the world recycled the LP with the CD.

    Just a matter of lucky timing.

    Today we fortunately have plenty of conductors who jointly with orchestra's often deliver a better quality and variety than the two named dinosaurs. Let's be honest, the musical qualities of both B and vK are often exaggerated
    . We all have our warhorses. But both conductors and orchestra's became better over the years. So, we don't have a megastar like B or vK, but we have enough to choose and enough to enjoy.

    If the entire output of both vK and B would be gone forever, as well as all pre-1980 CM recordings, a lot of the TC population would probably have a heart-attack from only imagining this disaster. But in reality we wouldn't miss much, as there are plenty of excellent alternatives around. Just think about it and try to create your favorite library of post 1980 recordings. You might be surprised with the adventure and vision expressed in those recordings!
    Of course timing had to play a part in it but your sour grapes comments is pretty unworthy, Both of them were hugely talented in their different ways. Sure we have fine conductors today but we don’t appreciate today’s talent by dissing the talent of the past.

  4. #108
    Senior Member NLAdriaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Of course timing had to play a part in it but your sour grapes comments is pretty unworthy, Both of them were hugely talented in their different ways. Sure we have fine conductors today but we don’t appreciate today’s talent by dissing the talent of the past.
    Well, in a forum preoccupied with dead conductors and aged recordings, a bit of fresh air is only healthy.

  5. #109
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    Well, in a forum preoccupied with dead conductors and aged recordings, a bit of fresh air is only healthy.
    Oh so lets throw out all the dead composers shall we? Get some fresh air in?
    Last edited by DavidA; Jul-07-2020 at 10:48.

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  7. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Lebrect is a totally biased article which basically says that successful people who sell too many recordings are bad for the recording industry. I’ve always thought that a bit of an oxymoron. Like saying the Beatles were bad for EMI
    I think classical music is a very different machine. I did find the article acerbic, but humorously so. He does bring up some interesting points about how to critically view the Bernstein v Karajan v Solti competition in retrospect and how it sort of crippled the industry in its fallout. And if someone has a compelling argument about how the domination of the Beatles in a different section of the recording industry actually did impact it negatively over time, I would be happy to hear it. I think one can, as I do, appreciate the recordings we have, I mean we have them, why not, but also lament the unfortunate way classical music was handled in the 70's and 80's. I believe classical music's declining popularity had a lot to do with the elitism that became attached to it.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Somehow conductors of the future donning N95 masks won't have the sex appeal of a young Bernstein or Karajan.
    “Music makes you feel feelings. Words make you think thoughts. But a song can make you feel a thought.”

    - Yip Harburg

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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    Somehow conductors of the future donning N95 masks won't have the sex appeal of a young Bernstein or Karajan.
    That's exactly what Gustavo Dudamel thinks, and why he doesn't wear one, and why his country is seeing a sharp spike in COVID 19 deaths.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    That's exactly what Gustavo Dudamel thinks, and why he doesn't wear one, and why his country is seeing a sharp spike in COVID 19 deaths.
    Sounds like a solid theory. He probably coughed on everyone at his last concert.
    “Music makes you feel feelings. Words make you think thoughts. But a song can make you feel a thought.”

    - Yip Harburg

  12. #114
    Senior Member regnaDkciN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    The days of Karajan and Bernstein are gone forever. They rose to fame with the increasing wealth of the boomers during the sixties and the television and LP stereo recordings and they were still around when the world recycled the LP with the CD.
    The "increasing wealth of the boomers" took place during the '70s and (especially) '80s, which is unsurprising since the oldest of the baby-boom generation would have been all of 24 when the '60s drew to a close.

    Having been around at the time, I can assure you that all those LB and HvK LPs were being purchased by the boomers' parents (now collectively relabeled as "the greatest generation"), who found them a blessed relief from "that noise kids listen to these days," while their boomer offspring were more interested in plumbing the depths of meaning in Sgt. Pepper or Blonde on Blonde.

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    European media is hooked on Currentzis. Another divo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    Who do you think will be the Bernstein or Karajan of this generation? Make your predictions here.
    Considering both have been dead over 30 years, they haven't and won't be replaced anytime soon as the age of conductor superstar has gone the way of vinyl.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subutai View Post
    Considering both have been dead over 30 years, they haven't and won't be replaced anytime soon as the age of conductor superstar has gone the way of vinyl.
    You mean CDs. Vinyl is popular again.
    “Music makes you feel feelings. Words make you think thoughts. But a song can make you feel a thought.”

    - Yip Harburg

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    Vinyl, CDs, the cloud, whatever. Bernstein was INSTRUMENTAL (no pun intended) in bringing audiences in-touch with Sibelius, Nielsen, Charles Ives, et. al., in his best days. His super-emotional (on video, at least) performances of Mahler and Shostakovich are still cogent and vital, to me ... whatever their flaws. Sure, he had his weak spots - Tchaikovsky, or a middling success with Beethoven or Brahms, but they don't overshadow his great commitment to music.

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    As for Herbert von K, maybe he could be replaced by any number of modern conductors. I'd "replace" him, even, with his predecessor - Wilhelm Furtwangler. Can anyone name a truly-GREAT (and lasting) modern conductor?

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    Carlos Kleiber.

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