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Thread: 1980-2000 Listening Group - Selection Thread

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    Senior Member 20centrfuge's Avatar
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    Default 1980-2000 Listening Group - Selection Thread

    1980-2000 Listening Group - Selection Thread


    The 1980-2000 Listening Group is forming for the purpose of selecting outstanding works (masterpieces) and then slowly, one work per week, doing an immersive exploration and discussion of those works.

    Each member of the group will take turns presenting and leading discussion of works that they are individually passionate about.

    Of course there are some details we'll need to work through but for now let's use this thread to recruit members and to begin a discussion of the outstanding works of this time frame.

    Selection Process
    This group is meant to be somewhat casual in nature. We aren't canonizing these works or anything like that, BUT, we want to at least focus on those works that stand out as being masterpieces for you individually, or for the music community. Also, ideally, we will have music from a variety of composers.

    Each member of the group can submit up to 10 works. We will then see which works have been submitted the most to determine the bulk of our selection music. BUT...

    If desired, each member will also be able to designate 1 of those 10 as an obscure favorite (or as a sure thing ). That work will automatically make it onto the final listening list. This is intended to enable some lesser known works to make it onto the list. That way we avoid just listening to works everyone has heard of.

    The final number of selections will be determined by how many members join and how much interest there is. I am tentatively planning on 20 works.


    Timetable
    Let's spend the next several weeks in discussion. People can submit trial lists during this time. When things are getting more settled we'll announce a deadline for final submission. After that we'll determine a schedule and who is presenting each week and get started on the official Listening Group Thread.


    Why 1980-2000?
    The dust really hasn't settled on the music of 2000-2020, so, in an effort to still have music that is contemporary and recent, but that can at least be viewed through a short lense of time, for now we're focusing on 1980-2000.
    Last edited by 20centrfuge; Feb-23-2020 at 23:16.

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    Here's a list of 10 works taken from our TC Top 200 Recommended Post-1950 Works. I do have one composer twice, but that's fine for now.

    Ligeti: Études pour piano (1985-2001)
    Adams: Harmonielehre (1985)
    Lutoslawski: Symphony No. 3 (1983)
    Vasks: Violin Concert, 'Distant Light' (1997)
    Boulez: Sur Incises (1996-1998)
    Schnittke: Viola Concerto (1985)
    Gubaidulina: Viola Concerto (1996)
    Rautavaara: Symphony No. 7 'Angel of Light' (1994)
    Murail: Désintégrations (1983)
    Schnittke: Choir Concerto (1985)

    This does raise a question. The first work, Ligeti's Études pour piano, is actually a set of 18 etudes in 3 books. I think we generally view this as one overall work, but for this project, would it count as a single work? Also at least one etude was apparently written in 2001. Is that an issue?

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    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Richard Kastle's Neo-Romantic works:

    "He conducted the premieres of his Titanic Symphony and Symphony No. 5 at Lincoln Center on November 6, 1999."
    "Royce Concerto is the second studio album by American classical pianist and composer Richard Kastle. It is also a three movement concerto for piano and orchestra, that was composed by Kastle and included in the album. The Philharmonia Orchestra also performs on the album released by Yum Recordings on September 30, 1997."






    "Richard Kastle plays "The Mirror Pool" with the Philharmonia Orchestra. The piece was composed at Yosemite National Park on the Mist Trail between Vernal and Nevada Falls. Featured on the Royce Concerto album, it is the second movement of Kastle's Piano Concerto No 6. There were no photos available from the spot where the piece was composed."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFN-C1gwnw
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Feb-23-2020 at 20:24.

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    Senior Member Kjetil Heggelund's Avatar
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    Hey! I actually spent some time making a list of 10 pieces that I think are great, important, modern and interesting!

    Takemitsu: Towards the Sea (1981)
    Carter: Changes (1983)
    Davies: Symphony no. 3 (1984)
    Nono: Caminante...Ayacucho (1987)
    Denisov: Au plus haut des cieux (1987)
    Berio: Sequenza XI (1988)
    Kurtag: Grabstein für Stephan (1989)
    Saariaho: Du cristal (1989)
    Nordheim: Violin concerto (1996)
    Lindberg: Feria (1997)
    Last edited by Kjetil Heggelund; Feb-23-2020 at 21:56. Reason: found out the Nono piece was written 1972...found another from 80's

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsbls View Post
    Here's a list of 10 works taken from our TC Top 200 Recommended Post-1950 Works. I do have one composer twice, but that's fine for now.

    Ligeti: Études pour piano (1985-2001)
    Adams: Harmonielehre (1985)
    Lutoslawski: Symphony No. 3 (1983)
    Vasks: Violin Concert, 'Distant Light' (1997)
    Boulez: Sur Incises (1996-1998)
    Schnittke: Viola Concerto (1985)
    Gubaidulina: Viola Concerto (1996)
    Rautavaara: Symphony No. 7 'Angel of Light' (1994)
    Murail: Désintégrations (1983)
    Schnittke: Choir Concerto (1985)

    This does raise a question. The first work, Ligeti's Études pour piano, is actually a set of 18 etudes in 3 books. I think we generally view this as one overall work, but for this project, would it count as a single work? Also at least one etude was apparently written in 2001. Is that an issue?
    We’d view it as a single work, and it’s not an issue that it was completed in 01.
    Last edited by 20centrfuge; Feb-23-2020 at 22:15.

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    Senior Member Trout's Avatar
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    Boulez: Répons (1980, rev. 1982/84)
    Glass: Koyaanisqatsi (1981)
    Nono: Prometeo (1981-84, rev. 1985)
    Reich: Different Trains (1988)
    Schnittke: Peer Gynt (1988)
    Dhomont: Forêt profonde (1994-96)
    Goebbels: Eislermaterial (1998)
    Twining: Chrysalid Requiem (1999)
    Ligeti: Études pour piano (1985, 1988-94, 1995-2001)
    Saariaho: L'Amour de loin (1999-2000)

    My "obscure choice" would be the Dhomont, but I'm not even so sure it is very obscure in contemporary/electronic music circles. It is extraordinary regardless.

    I also excluded Les espaces acoustiques since Grisey composed the majority of the 6 pieces before 1980, even if he did not complete the entire cycle until 1985. But if it is eligible, it would definitely make my list.

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    Senior Member 20centrfuge's Avatar
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    For easy reference, here’s the works from 1980-2000 from the first 100 of “TC’s Top 200 Post 1950 Works”

    6. Ligeti: Études pour piano (1985-2001)
    11. Grisey: Les Espaces Acoustiques (1974-85)
    12. Takemitsu: From Me Flows What You Call Time (1990)
    13. Adams: Harmonielehre (1985)
    15. Ligeti: Violin Concerto (1992)
    16. Messiaen: Éclairs sur l'au-delà... (1991)
    17. Lutoslawski: Symphony No. 3 (1983)
    23. Stockhausen: LICHT (1977-2003)
    24. Pärt: Te Deum (1985)
    27. Boulez: Répons (1984)
    31. Harvey: Mortuos Plango, Vivos Voco (1980)
    34. Adams: Nixon in China (1987)
    35. Boulez: Anthèmes II (1997)
    36. Gubaidulina: Offertorium (1980)
    40. Saariaho: L' Amour de Loin (2000)
    43. Reich: Different Trains (1988)
    45. Messiaen: St. François d'Assise (1975-83)
    49. Rihm: Jagden und Formen (1995/2001)
    51. Ligeti: Piano Concerto (1985-8)
    53. Nono: La lontananza nostalgica utopica futura (1988)
    54. Vasks: Violin Concert, 'Distant Light' (1997)
    57. Murail: Gondwana (1980)
    59. Boulez: Sur Incises (1996-1998)
    62. Sciarrino: Allegoria della Notte (1985)
    64. Schnittke: Viola Concerto (1985)
    67. Chin: Xi (1998)
    72. Gubaidulina: Viola Concerto (1996)
    79. Grisey: Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil (1998)
    80. Carter: Symphonia: Sum fluxae pretium spei (1996)
    87. Gubaidulina: Canticle of the Sun (Sonnengesang) (1997)
    89. Ferneyhough: Terrain (1992)
    91. Pintscher: Five Pieces for Orchestra (1997)
    92. Adams: Harmonium (1981)
    95. Feldman: For Philip Guston (1984)
    97. Saariaho: 'Nymphéa' (Jardin Secret III) (1987)
    99. Ustvolskaya: Symphony No. 3 "Jesus Messiah, Save Us" (1983)

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    My initial list would include works that I know well and love. But, honestly, one of the appeals of this listening group is getting to know works I don't know as well. Anyhoo, my initial list would include:

    Adams: Harmonielehre (1985)
    Messiaen: Éclairs sur l'au-delà... (1991)
    Harvey: Mortuos Plango, Vivos Voco (1980)
    Gubaidulina: Viola Concerto (1996)
    Corigliano: Symphony No. 1 (1988-89)
    Pärt: Fratres (1980)
    Rihm: Phantom und Eskapade (1994)
    Gubaidulina: Viola Concerto (1996)
    Adams: Nixon in China (1987)
    Glass: Koyaanisqatsi (1982)

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    Thoughts on the selection process? Will this work? Is better to just let each person pick a few works that they’ll present and not try to get works selected that are the most popular?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 20centrfuge View Post
    Thoughts on the selection process? Will this work? Is better to just let each person pick a few works that they’ll present and not try to get works selected that are the most popular?
    Hey there. I'm not sure it will work. The amount of pieces that can be submitted with a list of 10, will make listening to them more like homework you don't want to do. The thread of obscure works is working nicely, but this one is potentially monumental. I'm not very comfortable in making decisions on what are the outstanding masterpieces of the world. How about submitting only one piece each but the ones on the final list have to be of different genres (solo instrumental, chamber music, concerto, orchestral, vocal, electroacoustic...)

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    I must not have made it very understandable in the OP. We'd use everyone's lists of 10, tally up the entries that were selected more than once, and THOSE entries would be the ones that could make the final list. Not everything everyone submits would make the final list.

    But, now I'm not sure there will be much overlap at all, so it creates a different set of problems. Ugh.
    Last edited by 20centrfuge; Feb-24-2020 at 04:49.

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    Senior Member PeterFromLA's Avatar
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    Here's ten that come readily to mind.

    Lutoslawski Symphony #3 (1983)
    Feldman For Philip Guston (1984)
    Boulez Repons (1985)
    Ligeti Piano Etudes (1985-2001)
    Reich Different Trains (1988)
    Messiaen Saint François d'Assise (1983)
    Adams Nixon in China (1987)
    Saariaho Graal théâtre(1994)
    Schnittke Viola concerto (1985)
    Berio Voci (Folk Songs II) (1984)
    Last edited by PeterFromLA; Feb-24-2020 at 05:28.

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    Andriessen: De Materie (1985-1988)
    Boulez: Répons (1981-1985)
    Feldman: Piano and String Quartet (1985)
    Gubaidulina: Canticle of the Sun (1997)
    Haas: in vain (2000)
    Manoury: Pluton (1988-1989)
    Murail: Désintégrations (1982)
    Penderecki: Symphony No. 3 (1988-1995)
    Rihm: Jagden und Formen (1995-2001, revised 2008)
    Sarriaho: L'Amour de loin (2000)


    Is the Rihm allowed? If not, then replace with Dhomont: Forête profonde (1994-1996)
    Last edited by calvinpv; Feb-24-2020 at 06:05. Reason: Realized 2000-2020 works are excluded

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    Quote Originally Posted by 20centrfuge View Post
    I must not have made it very understandable in the OP. We'd use everyone's lists of 10, tally up the entries that were selected more than once, and THOSE entries would be the ones that could make the final list. Not everything everyone submits would make the final list.

    But, now I'm not sure there will be much overlap at all, so it creates a different set of problems. Ugh.
    As someone who is more interested in the esoteric, I think your "obscure pick" idea is a good one. I personally enjoy the thrill of listening to pieces and composers new to me, even if I don't like the music. I would still be down to re-listen to works by Boulez, Reich, Ligeti, etc. as likely consensus choices, but it would be personally less exciting. It seems like this thread is trying to examine both the famous and the obscure, and I'm not entirely sure that's what everyone wants. But I could be wrong.

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    I'm happy to include both works selected by more than one person as well as "obscure" works designated by a single member. Perhaps we can see how many works have multiple nominations and then decide on including a set number of "obscure favorites."

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