Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Countries with strong music tradition

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    159
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Countries with strong music tradition

    Hello all. I often wonder which country has the strongest musical tradition and why? My Irish friends would name a host of bands in support of their bid - but they don’t have a strong orchestral or opera scene. Conventionalists would probably name Germany or Austria and quote some famous composers, great public support for the arts along with high density of orchestras and musical theatres. My bid is the Czech Republic. Because it despite its tiny size is the birth place of so much great music and so many renewers. Because its music speaks of its people. Because its orchestras to this days seem to dig deep into a particular domestic vein or sound.

    I don’t mean to encourage yet another meaningless list of “best of” or “worst”. Just interested if there are any views on this topic.

  2. Likes DaddyGeorge liked this post
  3. #2
    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    989
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I guess it's important to determine the type of music you're talking about but when it comes to classical, my certain guess is that either Germany or Austria. In fact, it would maybe be even more proper to say Austro-German culture because throughout the history the country borders have changed quite a lot and thus it's difficult to determine the exact nationality of some composers from the past. Since Baroque, Germany and Austria have had many very great composers like Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Handel, Mozart, then the great Romantics (Schumann, Brahms, Wagner, Schubert, Bruckner, Strauss, Mahler etc.) and the second Viennese school. They also have many great orchestras, conductors and a generally long musical history and a lasting tradition.

  4. Likes DaddyGeorge liked this post
  5. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,201
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Gregorian chant started in Italy (Roman empire) and France in the pre-Renaissance. Italy had the first great composer, Monteverdi, 1561–1633, who was followed by Vivaldi and others. Italy had name composers including Respighi and Nono through the late 20th century.

    I believe that would likely be the lengthiest period for classical music, if that's what you are asking.

    Johannes Ockeghem of Belgium died 1497; if you consider him part of a Gallic or French line that would stretch through Le Six into the middle 20th century of later making that the near equal to Italy.

    England had Henry Purcell, born 1659, through Benjamin Britten who died 1976 and the still living Brian Ferneyough and Thomas Ades -- over 400 years -- though there was a long break between Purcell (died 1695) and Vaughan Williams and Elgar in the 20th century.

    Germany had Telemann and J.S. Bach, born 1600s, through Hans Werne Henze who died 2012 -- around 400 years.
    Last edited by larold; May-02-2020 at 13:39.

  6. Likes Ethereality liked this post
  7. #4
    Senior Member AbsolutelyBaching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    570
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larold View Post
    England had Henry Purcell, born 1600, through Benjamin Britten who died 1976 -- almost 400 years.
    What, no Dunstaple (b. 1390), Gibbons, Byrd, Tallis, Tye at the one end and Herbert Howells (d. 1983), Harrison Birtwistle (still alive) and Oliver Knussen (d. 2018) at the other?

    By my reckoning, that's at least 628 years of musical tradition for England alone.

  8. Likes Enthusiast liked this post
  9. #5
    Senior Member Ethereality's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    721
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    For just overall timespan, these nationalities were the most prominent according to TC's favorite composers.

    12th century - Germany, Hildegard of Bingen
    13th century -
    14th century - France, Machaut and Perotin
    15th century - Belgium, Du Fay and Ockeghem
    16th century - France, Italy, Josquin and Palestrina
    17th century - Italy, Monteverdi
    18th century - Germany, Austria, Bach, Mozart, Haydn and Handel
    19th century - Germany, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Schumann and Mendelssohn
    20th century - France, Russia, Shostakovich, Debussy, Prokofiev, Ravel and Stravinsky
    Present - United States, Adams, Glass and Reich

    By population-ratio, we can consider Austria as a big winner because they don't have as many people.
    Last edited by Ethereality; May-02-2020 at 14:26.

  10. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,201
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    12th century - Germany, Hildegard of Bingen
    13th century -
    14th century - France, Machaut
    15th century - Belgium, Du Fay and Ockeghem
    16th century - France and Italy, Josquin and Palestrina
    17th century - Italy, Monteverdi
    18th century - Germany and Austria, Bach, Handel, Mozart and Haydn
    19th century - Germany, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Brahms and Wagner
    20th century - Russia, Shostakovich, Prokofiev and Stravinsky
    Present - United States, Adams, Glass and Reich


    That's all true but most historians start classical music with Gregorian chant in the 9th or 10th century; it started in Rome.

    None of Adams, Glass and Reich were the first Americans. The first great American composer was Charles Ives, 1874-1954, giving America a couple centuries in classical music.
    Last edited by larold; May-02-2020 at 14:13.

  11. #7
    Senior Member Ethereality's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    721
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Sorry, yes I agree the list above is oversimplified to TC's sphere. Probably wasn't worth posting.
    Last edited by Ethereality; May-02-2020 at 14:55.

  12. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    6,954
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larold View Post
    Italy had the first great composer, Monteverdi, 1561–1633
    Ah.

    sbss. Bbs smchbsbsc

  13. #9
    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kampen (NL)
    Posts
    23,545
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larold View Post
    Italy had the first great composer, Monteverdi, 1561–1633...
    That sound you're hearing is Palestrina turning in his grave.
    I treat my music like I treat my pets. It’s something to own, care about and curate with attention to detail. From a blog by hjr.

  14. #10
    Senior Member Ekim the Insubordinate's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    416
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larold View Post
    12th century - Germany, Hildegard of Bingen
    13th century -
    14th century - France, Machaut
    15th century - Belgium, Du Fay and Ockeghem
    16th century - France and Italy, Josquin and Palestrina
    17th century - Italy, Monteverdi
    18th century - Germany and Austria, Bach, Handel, Mozart and Haydn
    19th century - Germany, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Brahms and Wagner
    20th century - Russia, Shostakovich, Prokofiev and Stravinsky
    Present - United States, Adams, Glass and Reich


    That's all true but most historians start classical music with Gregorian chant in the 9th or 10th century; it started in Rome.

    None of Adams, Glass and Reich were the first Americans. The first great American composer was Charles Ives, 1874-1954, giving America a couple centuries in classical music.
    But didn't the Greeks, long before the Gregorian Chants, writes treatises on the connection between tones and math which is the foundation of the classical music system?

  15. #11
    Senior Member Ethereality's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    721
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekim the Insubordinate View Post
    But didn't the Greeks...
    Reminds me of a meme.

  16. #12
    Senior Member AbsolutelyBaching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    570
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekim the Insubordinate View Post
    But didn't the Greeks, long before the Gregorian Chants, writes treatises on the connection between tones and math which is the foundation of the classical music system?
    That would be Pythagorus and his local blacksmith.
    But I'm not sure Samos had much of a musical tradition afterwards

    Can we mention Nero strumming whilst Rome (in Italy!) burnt?
    Last edited by AbsolutelyBaching; May-02-2020 at 14:49.

  17. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    1,770
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think all countries have strong music traditions. In fact, I can't think of one that doesn't. A trip through the Musical Instrument Museum in Scottsdale, AZ is pretty convincing. Now not all countries revere the complex music that developed in Europe, that's true. But there's music everywhere. Or try It's a Small World at Disneyland.

    What does concern me is that in many countries we're losing our musical traditions; folk songs and such which were once widely taught in schools are becoming extinct. One of the last concerts I played before all the music stopped had a number on it "The Gay Nineties". A millenial playing trumpet came to me on break and mentioned she noticed that I was "getting into" this music - I was moving right in sync, then asked "Should I know these songs? I've never heard them in my life" In the Good Old Summertime, The Band Played On, The Bowery...sad state of music education.

  18. #14
    Senior Member consuono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    519
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
    ...
    What does concern me is that in many countries we're losing our musical traditions; folk songs and such which were once widely taught in schools are becoming extinct. One of the last concerts I played before all the music stopped had a number on it "The Gay Nineties". A millenial playing trumpet came to me on break and mentioned she noticed that I was "getting into" this music - I was moving right in sync, then asked "Should I know these songs? I've never heard them in my life" In the Good Old Summertime, The Band Played On, The Bowery...sad state of music education.
    Sad state of education in general in the US. I'd also blame wall-to-wall garbage available from ubiquitous streamers and other vendors 24/7/365. There's too much of everything and not enough of if is worth a crap.

  19. Likes gregorx liked this post
  20. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    221
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
    I think all countries have strong music traditions. In fact, I can't think of one that doesn't. A trip through the Musical Instrument Museum in Scottsdale, AZ is pretty convincing. Now not all countries revere the complex music that developed in Europe, that's true. But there's music everywhere. Or try It's a Small World at Disneyland.

    What does concern me is that in many countries we're losing our musical traditions; folk songs and such which were once widely taught in schools are becoming extinct. One of the last concerts I played before all the music stopped had a number on it "The Gay Nineties". A millenial playing trumpet came to me on break and mentioned she noticed that I was "getting into" this music - I was moving right in sync, then asked "Should I know these songs? I've never heard them in my life" In the Good Old Summertime, The Band Played On, The Bowery...sad state of music education.
    Authentic folk music started dying off about 100 years ago when Bartok and Kodaly were searching through Eastern Europe asking the elderly to share whatever songs they could remember as they transcribed the melodies. in the 1950s, Pete Seeger and Alan Lomax traveled the world recording whatever authentic folk music was left by then.

    As far as music ed today, I think that it's the best and the worst of times, as it is in every age. On the one hand, the internet has made it so that the young are not being told what to like by just a handful of record companies and TV networks, so they have a much wider variety of musical genres to hear at any time. Also, the internet, and the I-phone has made it so that music is no longer a communal experience, no longer a source of youth bonding, so there's no musical generation gap, and no social pressure to like what everyone else likes. On the other hand, the high-speed internet technology has also made it so that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of time to listen; no space contemplative enough to really enjoy music. How do you concentrate on a cadenza when you have to check your phone every 30 seconds?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •