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Thread: Coronavirus Discussion WITHOUT POLITICAL COMMENTS

  1. #1561
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    I don't care about definitions,
    Okay, now that we’ve got that clear.

    but about the substance. And the substance is, that the virus infects cells that express the ACE2 receptors, and those are in the respiratory tract, in the gut, in the vessels. Based on what it infects, it can be called a bronchitis, a pneumonia, a vasculitis, enteritis etc. I will leave it to others to classify and name the disorder.
    Even from a medical ‘substance’ point of view, it is primarily a respiratory disease. It is contracted via the respiratory system, it is spread by the respiratory system and in the great majority of patients, it is expressed as primarily respiratory system symptoms over secondary symptoms [that may or may not occur] involving the blood vessels.

    But from what I remember from school (microbiology, infectious disease courses), there are several viruses that behave like this, for example the adenovirus
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenovirus_infection
    Opening statement of your link above:
    Adenovirus infections most commonly cause illness of the respiratory system;..
    Last edited by DaveM; Jun-02-2020 at 20:41.

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    At least according to the officially known numbers (which I guess we all know better than to put a lot of trust in), Brazil had more new cases than the USA yesterday, while within the US, California, Texas, and Illinois each had more new cases than New York and New Jersey put together.
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
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    Apparently SARS-CoV-2 didn’t get the message that the pandemic was on the down-swing and it was time to open everything up again.

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    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    It's as though the government WANTS a nice continued pandemic.

    They actually found a way to get liberals AND white supremacists to pile into the streets by the hundreds: Public lynching by a cop in broad daylight on video.

    Eight states had primary elections today. I'm betting the turnout was actually low. I know that the news outlets are barely giving it a mention.

    So they got their "open up". They also got chaos. They got white supremacists posing as protestors. There's been organized vandalism, arson, and looting.

    I predict a SECOND WAVE sooner than later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    I predict a SECOND WAVE sooner than later.
    All we can do is hope not.

    Maybe enough people are continuing to observe social distancing protocols so that the second wave won't get very big before effective treatments are developed....
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Since we seem to need some good news around here, how about this?

    ROME, May 31 (Reuters) - The new coronavirus is losing its potency and has become much less lethal, a senior Italian doctor said on Sunday. "In reality, the virus clinically no longer exists in Italy," said Alberto Zangrillo, the head of the San Raffaele Hospital in Milan in the northern region of Lombardy, which has borne the brunt of Italy's coronavirus contagion.

    “Pending scientific evidence to support the thesis that the virus has disappeared ... I would invite those who say they are sure of it not to confuse Italians," Sandra Zampa, an undersecretary at the health ministry, said in a statement.”
    Last edited by mmsbls; Jun-03-2020 at 07:52. Reason: Removed inappropriate comments

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Al View Post
    Managing my own personal risk in itself does not justify legal prohibitions: there I would only accept that guidance is reasonable. It is my risk to run, and if I do you might validly say "why should I care?".
    .
    But you can’t trust the guidance, because it’s given by a capitalist government which wants to get the economy moving and is willing to cut corners over safety to save costs.
    Last edited by Mandryka; Jun-03-2020 at 05:13.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    It’s interesting to compare Covid-19 with the Ebola situation in 2014. Only two cases were contracted in the US, neither of whom died. Nine others were contracted abroad or flown into the US for treatment. But at the time there was near-panic among some denizens of this forum, of the “OMG we’re all going to die!” variety. Needless to say, that didn’t happen.

    Which leads to my question: If it weren’t for our environment of instantaneous Internet communication and the constant bombardment of death counts and so forth from a sensationalist media -- in other words, if things were as they were not so very long ago – would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    . . . Mind you, I'd be mighty happy if they found a cure for the cold. . . .
    Actually, Chiropractic adjustments can relieve many of the symptoms. Many a time in my younger years while being treated for a curved spine, I would have some sinus congestion. A couple of adjustments later, the congestion was completely gone.

    A dear friend of mine was nearly crippled in a car accident ... they carried him in on a stretcher to the Chiropractor, and the friend was able to walk out quite normal. I was there - witnessed this for myself.

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    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    It’s interesting to compare Covid-19 with the Ebola situation in 2014. Only two cases were contracted in the US, neither of whom died. Nine others were contracted abroad or flown into the US for treatment. But at the time there was near-panic among some denizens of this forum, of the “OMG we’re all going to die!” variety. Needless to say, that didn’t happen.

    Which leads to my question: If it weren’t for our environment of instantaneous Internet communication and the constant bombardment of death counts and so forth from a sensationalist media -- in other words, if things were as they were not so very long ago – would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?
    Even without the internet, I think word would have gotten around that something more than a ‘nasty flu’ was going on after instances such as a choir (as first reported to a local newspaper) after one practice had 52 out of 60 come down with the virus and 2 deaths, meat packing plants report hundreds have come down with it, families have been wiped out and ICUs in several cities reached dangerous capacity.

    If that isn’t convincing enough then consider that there was nowhere near the media coverage at the time of the Spanish Flu -which was just a little more than a ‘nasty flu’ and may have not been even as contagious as this virus- and yet, word got around before long that a pandemic was at hand.
    Last edited by DaveM; Jun-03-2020 at 07:56.

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    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Which leads to my question: If it weren’t for our environment of instantaneous Internet communication and the constant bombardment of death counts and so forth from a sensationalist media -- in other words, if things were as they were not so very long ago – would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?
    Without that information, there would not have been any countermeasures. The amount of people dying would have been much higher than now (And before someone yells 'Sweden!', a number of countermeasures have been taken there as well, just less strict than most countries). To keep on comparing it to (a nasty) flu may suit your purpose, but it is simply wrong.
    I treat my music like I treat my pets. It’s something to own, care about and curate with attention to detail. From a blog by hjr.

  14. #1572
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    Without that information, there would not have been any countermeasures. The amount of people dying would have been much higher than now (And before someone yells 'Sweden!', a number of countermeasures have been taken there as well, just less strict than most countries). To keep on comparing it to (a nasty) flu may suit your purpose, but it is simply wrong.
    Without disagreeing with anything you're saying, my question remains. "...would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?"
    Last edited by KenOC; Jun-03-2020 at 07:59.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    It’s interesting to compare Covid-19 with the Ebola situation in 2014. Only two cases were contracted in the US, neither of whom died. Nine others were contracted abroad or flown into the US for treatment. But at the time there was near-panic among some denizens of this forum, of the “OMG we’re all going to die!” variety. Needless to say, that didn’t happen.

    Which leads to my question: If it weren’t for our environment of instantaneous Internet communication and the constant bombardment of death counts and so forth from a sensationalist media -- in other words, if things were as they were not so very long ago – would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?
    How long ago is "not so very long ago"?

    Before the internet was invented, there was TV and Radio - remember them? You would have listened to Cronkite, wouldn't you, and got your panic from him instead!

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Without disagreeing with anything you're saying, my question remains. "...would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?"
    No, "we" wouldn't, because the press and broadcast media would not have been reporting it that way.
    Last edited by MacLeod; Jun-03-2020 at 08:04.

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    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Without disagreeing with anything you're saying, my question remains. "...
    would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?"
    Given the fact that so many people would die in a few weeks, of course we would question whether it was more than a flu. Don't just look at figures per country, within each country there have been regions that have been hit much harder. Numbers of people dying there would have been orders of magnitudes higher than with a regular flu
    I treat my music like I treat my pets. It’s something to own, care about and curate with attention to detail. From a blog by hjr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    It’s interesting to compare Covid-19 with the Ebola situation in 2014. Only two cases were contracted in the US, neither of whom died. Nine others were contracted abroad or flown into the US for treatment. But at the time there was near-panic among some denizens of this forum, of the “OMG we’re all going to die!” variety. Needless to say, that didn’t happen.

    Which leads to my question: If it weren’t for our environment of instantaneous Internet communication and the constant bombardment of death counts and so forth from a sensationalist media -- in other words, if things were as they were not so very long ago – would we even be aware that there was a pandemic? Or would we say simply be saying that it was a really nasty flu season?
    It is quite thought-provoking to compare people's responses to Ebola with their responses to coronavirus, and to speculate on the reasons underlying that difference.
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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