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Thread: P 01-10 - The 2020 TC Opera on CD and DVD Poll

  1. #1
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Thumbs up P 01-10 - The 2020 TC Opera on CD and DVD Poll

    This thread will have the goal of updating the 2015 Talk Classical Top Recommended Operas on CD and DVD since five years have passed from the last voting and many new members and opera fans have appeared in this forum. Also, the new load of Opera recordings, especially on Video format, make it an obligation to provide a new list of recommendations

    The goal of the project:

    • The TalkClassical members with a wide variety of interests and experiences can reach a consensus on the most essential recordings of the most favourite operatic works.
    • These lists may be used as reference points for both newcomers and long-time classical listeners to the world of classical music to be Abel to build the best library of Opera recordings.
    • These lists are not definitive or official by any means and please do not interpret them as such.

    *We ask that you refrain from criticism here, especially for recordings and works. Negative remarks will be flagged since there are several threads to discuss the quality of certain Works or recordings.*

    Discussion, comments, and questions can all be handled in this thread, where we have been discussing the need and the necessary voting process.

    Requirements to nominate recordings:

    Any performance commercially released should be eligible, especially when it counts to DVD and CD formats. However, we would still discourage members to vote for live performances that have been either just broadcasted or released on digital format or CD without all the permissions. For instance, the rather praised but unreleased Proms Wagner Ring Conducted by Daniel Barenboim, or the majority of OperaDepot releases, rather obscure in-house recordings most of the time. I

    Historical Labels such as Pristine Classical, Testament, Ars Vocalis, or the Archipel family do count for the Poll, as well as all the other commercial labels,

    Voting process

    idem for CDs and DVD

    • 6 points available (integers!) for members to allocate up to 6 opera recordings or performances.
    • Please, don't post pictures, but text with Conductor - Orchestra, and date or performers if necessary
    • 48h to deliver the votes in each Operatic work (new poll every 2 days)
    • Do not post if you pass from the work
    • Votes in advance are accepted on DM. Please check the 2020 Opera Recommendations list (1-150) and send it to me.

    Number of threads: New one every 10 operas 1-10, then a single one for positions 101-150

    Ties: the recording with equal points but more members voting beats the other.

    Exceptions in the process: 2-part voting rounds: complete cycle and spare operas

    Der Ring Des Nibelungen: nominate list for the best cyle on CD and DVD
    • Das Rheingold: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
    • Die Walküre: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
    • Siegfried: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
    • Götterdämmerung: nominate list for the best recordings on CD

    Il Trittico: nominate list for the best cycle on CD and DVD
    • Il tabarro: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
    • Suor Angelica: nominate list for the best recordings on CD
    • Gianni Schichi: nominate list for the best recordings on CD

    Licht: nominate list for the best cycle on CD and DVD

    Example

    April 1st-5th

    Wagner - Das Rheingold on CD
    • Konwitschny ROH CG 1959 - 6p

    Wagner - Die Walküre on CD
    • Böhm Bayreuth Philips 1967 - 5p
    • Leinsdorf LSO - 1p

    Wagner - Siegfried on CD
    • Keilberth Bayreuth 1955 - 1p
    • Keilberth Bayreuth 1953 - 1p
    • Keilberth Bayreuth 1952 - 1p
    • Furtwängler Scala 50 - 1p
    • Sawallisch BaySO Warner EMI - 1p
    • Haitink Bayerischen Rundfunks - 1p

    Wagner - Götterdämmerung on CD
    • Solti WPO - 2p
    • Karajan BPO - 2p
    • Konwitschny ROH CG - 2p


    April 6th-7th

    Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen on CD
    • Solti WPO - 3p
    • Karajan BPO - 1p
    • Janowski SKD - 1p
    • Thielemann WStO - 1p

    Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen on DVD
    • Haenchen De Nederlandse Opera - 4p
    • Levine Met 1991 - 1p
    • Barenboim Bayreuth 91-92 - 1p


    April 8th

    Berlioz - Les Troyens on CD
    • Nelson Strasbourg - 5p
    • Dutoit Montréal - 1p

    Berlioz - Les Troyens on DVD
    • Pappano ROH CG - 3p
    • Gergiev Valencia - 3p


    Voting round times:

    2 days (48h) for each Opera on CD and DVD. 00:00 PST
    Since the Ring des Nibelungen and Il Trittico will be voted as a cycle and as a set of 3-4 operas, the week they are voted, we will alow the weekdays for members to vote the single operas and the weekend to vote for the best cycle overall. This is done to raise the interest of members for round 1 too:
    Monday-Friday: Das Rheingold – Die Walküre – Siegfried – Götterdämmerung : on CD
    Saturday-Sunday – Der Ring des Nibelungen : on CD and DVD



    So far as it has been discussed in the sub-forum, the results of the recommended recordings for each one of the 100 most voted operas won't be shown by opera rank this time, but in order of premiere date. Please voice your mind there if you want and haven't already.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Default Voting Round 1.1

    18-22 MAY (PST)

    Richard Wagner
    DAS RHEINGOLD
    DIE WALKÜRE
    SIEGFRIED
    GÖTTERDÄMMERUNG

    on CD
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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Das Rheingold:
    3p Karajan BPO
    2p Furtwängler RAI
    1p Knappertsbusch BFO 57

    Die Walküre
    3p Knappertsbusch BFO 58
    1p Böhm BFO 67
    1p Janowski SKD
    1p Keilberth BFO 53

    Siegfried
    3p Knappertsbusch BFO 58
    3p Böhm BFO 66

    Götterdämmerung
    4p Böhm BFO 67
    1p Knappertsbusch BFO 57
    1p Karajan BPO

    Notice that the Böhm and Karajan recordings are released either by Philips or DG.
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    Senior Member howlingfantods's Avatar
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    Das Rheingold

    Bohm - 4 points
    Keilberth 55 - 2

    The Bohm has the best overall cast and has exceptional pacing of the cycle. Once I start listening to a Bohm Ring recording, it's hard for me to stop, it just flows and is the most compulsively listenable; and while some individual roles have been better sung, only Solti's cycle can match how consistently good the singing is throughout.

    I can't abide Keilberth's whole cycle since I can't stand Astrid Varnay, a blot on virtually every 50s Bayreuth cycle. But you can experience Hans Hotter's superb Wotan in the 1955 Keilberth Rheingold without worrying about her, in much better voice than his Solti appearances. The rest of the cast isn't as good as Bohm's, and I find Keilberth's conducting similar to but less effective than Bohm's.


    Walkure

    Bohm - 3
    Leinsdorf 1940 on Pristine - 2
    Furtwangler 1950 on Pristine - 1

    Bohm is the best all arounder with singing ranging from good to great, but Leinsdorf edges the cast out in Pristine's remaster in shockingly great sound. But the conducting and much better sound of Bohm gives that one the edge. The Furtwangler cast isn't as good overall but his conducting can't be missed


    Siegfried

    Bohm - 5 points
    Furtwangler 1950 on Pristine - 1 point

    This is the Ring opera that makes me tap my toes impatiently the most often with other recordings. However, the Bohm does its usual magic and sweeps me along, with hours that go by like minutes instead of the other way around. Good cast overall, and Wohlfahrt is a rare Mime that actually mostly sings his part instead of shouting and spitting it.

    Markwort on the Furtwangler is also pretty good actually. Unfortunately Furtwangler has a light and undercast Wanderer in Josef Herrmann, but he's still a pleasant listen and the rest of the cast is excellent.

    Gotterdammerung

    Bohm - 3
    Solti studio - 2
    Furtwangler 1950 on Pristine - 1

    Solti's cast is slightly better than Bohm's but his ending is a little too exultant and bombastic. Easily the best of his cycle though, and the only one I still listen to semi-regularly. Bohm's cast and performance is no less excellent than the rest of the cycle except Modl's Waltraute is pretty poor--she is very audibly over the hill even in this mezzo part where she can avoid her compromised top. Max Lorenz is over the hill in the Furtwangler too, but I still find his a uniquely gripping and moving performance of Siegfried's last moments.
    Last edited by howlingfantods; May-18-2020 at 18:26.

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    If all you need for Trovatore is the four greatest singers in the world, then all you need for the Ring is the greatest Wagnerian conductor in the world. The more I listen to the tetralogy and consider the impossibility of finding the perfect cast due to the number of roles and the way that the best singers in each role didn't coincide.

    The singers I like don't even appear in the same single operas of the cycle and therefore choosing individual recordings for each opera doesn't necessarily serve as much of an attraction for me. My perfect cycle would look something like this:

    Conductor - Barenboim
    Brunhilde - Martha Modl
    Wotan - Hans Hotter
    Siegfried - Lauritz Melchior
    Siegmund - Jon vickers
    Sieglinde - Cheryl Studer

    However, fortunately most of my second favourites appear with a few of my favourites and therefore I can pick the following individual recordings of each opera that also make up a cycle of sorts.

    Rheingold
    6p - Keilberth - BFO - 1955

    Walkure
    6p - Keilberth - BFO - 1955 (second cycle with Modl as Brunhilde)

    Siegfried
    6p - Keilberth - BFO - 1955

    Gotterdamerung
    6p - Keilberth - BFO - 1955 (second cycle with Modl as Brunhilde)

    N.

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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Default Voting Round 1.2

    23-24 MAY (PST)

    Richard Wagner
    DER RING
    DES NIBELUNGEN

    on CD
    on DVD and Blu-Ray
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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    CD
    4p Böhm BFO 66-67
    2p Keilberth BFO 53

    DVD
    6p Boulez BFO 79
    Last edited by Granate; May-23-2020 at 10:02.
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    CD
    6p Keilberth BFO 53

    DVD
    6p Barenboim BFO 92

    N.

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    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Default

    CD
    2p Levine MET 1988
    2p Sawallisch BaySO 1989
    2p Goodall ENO 1974-1978


    DVD
    2p Levine MET 1990
    2p Barenboim BFO 1991-92
    2p Boulez BFO 1980-81

    All dates are from the Wikipedia discography listing
    Assume Bayreuth Festival is BFO
    Don't know the standard abbreviation for Bayerischer Staatsoper or even what it is in English
    Bear with me, I am a music fact dummy.
    Last edited by SixFootScowl; May-23-2020 at 16:21. Reason: to abbreviate orchestra name per next post
    "Life is too short to spend it wandering in the barren Sahara of musical trash."
    --Sergei Vasilyevich Rachmaninoff

  11. #10
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    Don't know the standard abbreviation for Bayerischer Staatsoper or even what it is in English
    Bear with me, I am a music fact dummy.
    I usually use BaySO and Met instead of MET

    And I always like to use the original language name, but in English it is like Bavarian State Opera and Ópera Estatal de Baviera in Spanish
    Last edited by Granate; May-23-2020 at 16:01.
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    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
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    CD
    2p Solti WPO 58-65
    2p Knappertsbusch BFO 58
    2p Keilberth BFO 53

    DVD
    6p Levine Met 1990

    (I find it so difficult to vote when I haven't heard even all of the most famous recordings..)
    Last edited by annaw; May-23-2020 at 16:09.

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    Senior Member Azol's Avatar
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    CD
    2p Solti WPO 58-65
    4p Keilberth BFO 53

    DVD
    6p Boulez BFO 79
    Last edited by Azol; May-23-2020 at 16:57.

  16. #13
    Senior Member howlingfantods's Avatar
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    CD

    Bohm - 5
    Furtwangler/La Scala - 1

    DVD

    Barenboim/Bayreuth - 6

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    Audio Recording:

    Keilberth 1955 - 6

    DVD:

    Met 2011 'Lepage' Ring - 6

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    Default

    CD



    6 points

    DVD

    Pass

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