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Thread: How should we interpret the end of Gotterdammerung?

  1. #61
    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zxxyxxz View Post
    I shy away from philosophy mainly as I reject salvation through suffering. And to be honest I just like Wagner's stories.

    I personally don't think anything good could ever come from an object like the ring even before the curse.

    The true tragedy is how despite their best efforts and through no fault of their own Siegfried and Brunnhilde could do nothing to prevent their deaths or change their course due to the control of the gods.

    In the end all Brunnhilde can do is make their ends mean something.
    I understand . I certainly don't agree with everything Wagner thought but I find it very fascinating to analyse his operas though it's somewhat questionable how well I manage that. I find it amazing how much he poured into them.

    Yet more about the ring, I feel the problem is the same as the one with entire humanity. We are just not strong enough to reject our temptations and evil desires. I don't think that the ring would have had any power over the gods hadn't they been susceptible to the evil right in the beginning of Das Rheingold.

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    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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  3. #63
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    I think that is 100% true annaw.
    Last edited by zxxyxxz; May-20-2020 at 08:36.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zxxyxxz View Post
    The true tragedy is how despite their best efforts and through no fault of their own Siegfried and Brunnhilde could do nothing to prevent their deaths or change their course due to the control of the gods.
    there's no innocents in Der Ring, everyone is at fault in there.

  5. #65
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    I like seeing other peoples takes on der ring.

    But ultimately as listening, understanding and interpreting is a private matter I will keep my interpretation unless I come to the change myself. (I don't think I'm right, or want to present my thoughts as right)

    As part of that, I am just sharing my thoughts in the spirit of friendly discussion and hopefully I will learn something
    Last edited by zxxyxxz; May-20-2020 at 09:08.

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  7. #66
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zxxyxxz View Post
    I will keep my interpretation
    it's not a matter of interpretation, for there's nothing to interpret in Der Ring that states things clearly.

    this is an opera, after all, the one most close to world issues than any other opera to date.

    it has words, it has leitmotives to interact with these, it has a message.

    there's no room left to do guessing about it.

  8. #67
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    I disagree, everything with words and a message can be interpreted.

    My main interest with is the music and the story as the operas unfold, so to me it is a tragic romance and I'm ok with that.

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  10. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    it's not a matter of interpretation, for there's nothing to interpret in Der Ring that states things clearly.

    this is an opera, after all, the one most close to world issues than any other opera to date.

    it has words, it has leitmotives to interact with these, it has a message.

    there's no room left to do guessing about it.
    There are plenty of unanswered questions when it comes to the Ring, that's one of the reason it's such a great work of art.

    N.

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  12. #69
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    it's not a matter of interpretation, for there's nothing to interpret in Der Ring that states things clearly.

    there's no room left to do guessing about it.
    That's what religious fundamentalists say about their scriptures, and what totalitarian dictators say about themselves.

    Neiher life nor art is that simple, thank goodness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    That's what religious fundamentalists say about their scriptures, and what totalitarian dictators say about themselves.

    Neiher life nor art is that simple, thank goodness.
    Very well put. It is unfortunately a characteristic of fanaticism.

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    Senior Member Op.123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    it's not a matter of interpretation, for there's nothing to interpret in Der Ring that states things clearly.

    this is an opera, after all, the one most close to world issues than any other opera to date.

    it has words, it has leitmotives to interact with these, it has a message.

    there's no room left to do guessing about it.
    such narrow views make art worthless
    “Neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together go to the making of genius. Love, love, love, that is the soul of genius.”

    - Mozart

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  18. #72
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zxxyxxz View Post
    to me it is a tragic romance and I'm ok with that.
    you are mistaken, and yours - an example of how far from truth interpreting can be.

  19. #73
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    There are plenty of unanswered questions when it comes to the Ring
    okay, go ahead and ask one, i answer.

  20. #74
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    That's what religious fundamentalists say about their scriptures, and what totalitarian dictators say about themselves.
    you not only have no proper understanding of the opera and its music, but also have no coherent idea about politics, where, as far as scriptures go, no holder of these would accept interpreting them, be it a dictatorship or a democracy.

  21. #75
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VitellioScarpia View Post
    Very well put. It is unfortunately a characteristic of fanaticism.
    'well put' yeah?.. nope, he is wrong about things.

    and you should go and watch the opera, listen to its music, before making comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Op.123 View Post
    such narrow views make art worthless
    you obviously know not what art is and what is for.

    art is an ideology and a precise tool used to convey information in a coded way.

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