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Thread: Question on Karajan's '63 Beethoven set..........

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    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    Question Question on Karajan's '63 Beethoven set..........

    How many times has this set been remastered,
    and what remasters are used in which sets?
    Kind of confusing to me.
    Thanks
    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

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    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    I'm trying to find it, Itullian, but this conversation has been on here before. I'll link you if I find it. I did find this that I posted some time ago on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merl View Post

    .............I have the set below and it is a 20-bit remaster and sounds great.

    Attachment 127113

    Although I don't have the edition below it, too, is a remaster (unless others on Amazon and elsewhere are lying). I couldn't comment on its quality though. Its been remastered to death since then.

    Attachment 127114
    Last edited by Merl; May-23-2020 at 18:22.

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    Senior Member Helgi's Avatar
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    What about the SACD issue with green and purple shapes on the cover, I have it in my head from somewhere that that's the best one (?)

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    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgi View Post
    What about the SACD issue with green and purple shapes on the cover, I have it in my head from somewhere that that's the best one (?)
    This (I believe) is the latest SACD release but tbh I haven't heard it. Allegedly it's had a further remaster and has been 'enhanced' (what does that mean?) for the SACD but I don't know how it sounds. How many times can you remaster a disc? There's also a bonus disc with rehearsals (wow!). Could we cynical suggest that this is another DG money-making exercise?

    51eZvxkRW6L._SL1500_.jpg
    Last edited by Merl; May-23-2020 at 23:18.

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    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
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    I'd argue the Blu-ray Audio edition is the best sound. It's certainly the most recent remaster, done at Emil Berliner Studios. You can still find it in the single B-rA disc version for a decent price. But there is also one with CDs included, and I don't know which master that is, I assume the most recent one, but that hasn't always been the case with the CDs included with the B-rA editions.

    https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...honies-nos-1-9

    Last edited by Knorf; May-23-2020 at 23:24.

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    Senior Member apricissimus's Avatar
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    When sets like this, or classic old albums (Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" comes to mind), are endlessly remastered, it's just a marketing thing, I think. Like, "The first nine remasters were ****. What you really need is the tenth!"

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    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    When sets like this, or classic old albums (Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" comes to mind), are endlessly remastered, it's just a marketing thing, I think. Like, "The first nine remasters were ****. What you really need is the tenth!"
    I don't disagree. But the Karajan Blu-ray editions really are something special.

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    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merl View Post
    I'm trying to find it, Itullian, but this conversation has been on here before. I'll link you if I find it. I did find this that I posted some time ago on the topic.
    That Collectors Edition set sounds terrible. It has been stripped of its warmth and bass.
    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

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    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    Anyone know what remaster the cds are in this blu ray / cd recent issue?

    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

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    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itullian View Post
    That Collectors Edition set sounds terrible. It has been stripped of its warmth and bass.
    That's why I ended up getting the Complete Beethoven vol1 box version. It's wayyyyy better. That Collectors Edition has terrible reviews, all complaining about the sound.

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    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    When sets like this, or classic old albums (Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" comes to mind), are endlessly remastered, it's just a marketing thing, I think. Like, "The first nine remasters were ****. What you really need is the tenth!"
    I have four different masterings of KOB (more than I have of any other recording). Three of them are hi-rez - one is multi-channel (three channels like some of the Living Stereo releases). The latest does not necessarily sound better than the earlier ones - a subjective matter in any event - but they all do sound different. I've read some endless debates on "which KOB" on other forums.

    I also have the pictured SACD set of Karajan's cycle. Sounded better than the set I previously had and disposed of. I don't rip Blu-Rays, and I do rip the hi-rez layers of my SACDs, so I'll stand pat.
    Last edited by jegreenwood; May-24-2020 at 12:35.

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    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorf View Post
    I'd argue the Blu-ray Audio edition is the best sound. It's certainly the most recent remaster, done at Emil Berliner Studios. You can still find it in the single B-rA disc version for a decent price. But there is also one with CDs included, and I don't know which master that is, I assume the most recent one, but that hasn't always been the case with the CDs included with the B-rA editions.

    https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...honies-nos-1-9

    Sounds fine to me!

    Funny but when it first was mooted DG were taking a huge financial risk in producing and marketing the set. It was the first set of its kind to be sold as a set at full price which was a small fortune in those days. Of course, a million copies later.....
    Last edited by DavidA; May-24-2020 at 12:29.

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    Senior Member Bourdon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Sounds fine to me!

    Funny but when it first was mooted DG were taking a huge financial risk in producing and marketing the set. It was the first set of its kind to be sold as a set at full price which was a small fortune in those days. Of course, a million copies later.....
    If you bought LPs separately, a seal was included in the beginning. With a few of these stamps you could get the cassette, that's what I did.
    The fifth from this set was my first classic LP and I had to save a few weeks to buy it because I immediately wanted the best I could find.
    I have now the sacd edition wich sounds noticeable better than my old LP's


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    Member regnaDkciN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merl View Post
    This (I believe) is the latest SACD release but tbh I haven't heard it. Allegedly it's had a further remaster and has been 'enhanced' (what does that mean?) for the SACD but I don't know how it sounds. How many times can you remaster a disc? There's also a bonus disc with rehearsals (wow!). Could we cynical suggest that this is another DG money-making exercise?

    51eZvxkRW6L._SL1500_.jpg
    That "latest" SACD release is from the early 2000s. As far as I know, it's a conversion of the 24/96 Emil Berliner mastering job (all DG album masters were resampled in the late 1990s for archival purposes) to DSD. I have no idea if they played around with the sound while they were at it, but this SACD set is from quite a while before the current Blu-Ray Audio release.

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