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Thread: My sinfonietta

  1. #1
    Junior Member TalkingPie's Avatar
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    Default My sinfonietta



    I know with the internet age our attention span become much shorter, so if you're put off by the slow introduction, skip to 2:00.

    This was my first orchestral composition.
    It's based on the 4-movement scheme, with an opening in sonata form, a dance (waltz), a slow movement, and a fast finale.
    My influences are very varied, but include Prokofiev, Ravel, Bartók, late Romanticism and Jazz.
    Last edited by TalkingPie; May-27-2020 at 20:31.

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    Great work! Well composed and brilliantly orchestrated.To me it sounds like a mixture of Ravel, Prokofjiev, Stravinsky and Bartok (Bartok mostly on rhythmic aspects, not so much on your harmonic material) so your influences show
    Last edited by pkoi; May-27-2020 at 22:07.

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    Wow!

    I really like that, you've done a fantastic job!

    I have to ask you some questions about rendering, because there are some things you've done that sound much better than I've been able to find a way to produce.

    Did you notate it in Dorico? Or Sibelius? Or something else?
    Did you render the sound from the notation program (e.g. with NotePerformer) or use VSTs in a DAW (if so which one?)

    I'm wondering how you got your string harmonics to work so well (which is why I suspect Dorico rather than Sibelius). The strings glissandi sound a lot better than NotePerformer as well.

    Thanks so much for posting!
    Last edited by adrien; May-27-2020 at 23:22.

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    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
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    Nice melody bro, it pleasant!
    'Listen, Mister god!
    Isn't it boring
    to dip your puffy eyes,
    every day, into a jelly of clouds?'

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  9. #5
    Junior Member TalkingPie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrien View Post
    Wow!

    I really like that, you've done a fantastic job!

    I have to ask you some questions about rendering, because there are some things you've done that sound much better than I've been able to find a way to produce.

    Did you notate it in Dorico? Or Sibelius? Or something else?
    Did you render the sound from the notation program (e.g. with NotePerformer) or use VSTs in a DAW (if so which one?)

    I'm wondering how you got your string harmonics to work so well (which is why I suspect Dorico rather than Sibelius). The strings glissandi sound a lot better than NotePerformer as well.

    Thanks so much for posting!
    Thanks! It's Sibelius with Noteperformer. The harmonics use the default playback, it can calculate the actual note from the diamond notation. The harmonic string glissandos have the line between each note hidden. Other than that, I don't think I tweaked the audio playback that much.

  10. #6
    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
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    Im not an expert but 2 my ears a bit trained its truly masterly made...With passionate and almost silent moments, they way I like it...Even an eargasm in the end with crescendo lol...Will share the $%&( out of it on social media when I return!
    'Listen, Mister god!
    Isn't it boring
    to dip your puffy eyes,
    every day, into a jelly of clouds?'

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  12. #7
    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    You do have talent and the score shows knowledge of handling instruments, but it also reveals more to learn.

    First the score is clearly one for sounds rather than for conducting because the percussion instruments need to be assigned to a Percussionist I, and/or Percussionists II (or for ever how many one needs).

    Now, trombones do not play in the treble clef, although shortly after the early measures you do switch over to bass clef.

    Some of your trombone glissandi (I personally think you overdid the number throughout) are not possible. I can't read the measure numbers clearly but in the first movement you have both glisses from D-flat up to A-flat and the next measure from E up to B. The D-flat is played in 5th position and when they glide upwards it stops on F (1st position). The E is played in either 2nd position (which would stop on F a half step) or start in 7th and would stop on B-flat (1st position). The only way around that since you have two bones is for #2 to start a gliss with a stopping note about half way up the perfect 5th and have #1 start on #2's stopping note and then finish the gliss. Bartok made this mistake in his Concerto for Orchestra and all trombonists since split up to make his mistake sound right. We composers today must learn from his mistake.
    Last edited by Vasks; May-28-2020 at 16:38.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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  14. #8
    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
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    Btw y a ''talkingpie''...Thats a funny nickname if I evah saw 1!!!
    'Listen, Mister god!
    Isn't it boring
    to dip your puffy eyes,
    every day, into a jelly of clouds?'

  15. #9
    Senior Member Richannes Wrahms's Avatar
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    Love that beginning.

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  17. #10
    Junior Member TalkingPie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasks View Post
    You do have talent and the score shows knowledge of handling instruments, but it also reveals more to learn.

    First the score is clearly one for sounds rather than for conducting because the percussion instruments need to be assigned to a Percussionist I, and/or Percussionists II (or for ever how many one needs).

    Now, trombones do not play in the treble clef, although shortly after the early measures you do switch over to bass clef.

    Some of your trombone glissandi (I personally think you overdid the number throughout) are not possible. I can't read the measure numbers clearly but in the first movement you have both glisses from D-flat up to A-flat and the next measure from E up to B. The D-flat is played in 5th position and when they glide upwards it stops on F (1st position). The E is played in either 2nd position (which would stop on F a half step) or start in 7th and would stop on B-flat (1st position). The only way around that since you have two bones is for #2 to start a gliss with a stopping note about half way up the perfect 5th and have #1 start on #2's stopping note and then finish the gliss. Bartok made this mistake in his Concerto for Orchestra and all trombonists since split up to make his mistake sound right. We composers today must learn from his mistake.
    Thanks, and thanks for the input! However, this was written back in 2018, and I've been polishing the orchestration ever since. I think all your comments were already implemented.

    1) Added tuba and bass trombone
    2) The trombone glissandi were rewritten according to that pdf chart with all possible glissandos. The clefs were fixed after feedback from a trombonist that played in an orchestral arrangement of mine
    3) The percussion instruments were reshuffled between 2 "percussionist" staves, one with mostly timpani and bass drum, and the other with the rest
    4) Decreased the number of crisscrossed woodwind chord voicings unless I want it to sound funny, favored the normal order instead
    5) Fixed all flute passages with notes below C5 unless in soft passages
    6) Removed some Bb5 and C6 notes in the trumpet unless it's ff
    7) Some harp glissandi were too slow, put instead the film music notation with multiple, ad lib. superimposed glissandi
    8) Added a few col legno passages
    9) Removed almost all harp notes below C2 because the performer would need to bend over too quickly
    10) Added non div. remarks and reduced the number of quadruple stops
    11) Didn't know of timpani tuning pedals, made use of them and went beyond 4 notes maximum in every movement
    12) Made sure the bassoon II has 30 secs to shift to contrabassoon and viceversa
    13) Added a few cinematic ascending woodwind runs
    14) Fixed a lot of lapses and careless mistakes like forgetting to put "a2" or "div."
    15) Use clarinets in Bb in the 3rd movement
    16) At least 50 minor retouches and added details

    17) To do (?) Split the staves of Picc/fl. II and fl. I throughout. Same with bsn I and bsn II/cbsn
    18) Evaluating to remove the connecting passage between movs. II and III with the oboe solo

    I haven't done a new video because the differences are barely audible, and I'd lose the views I already have.

    Here's the 1st movement to show I'm not making it up: https://docdro.id/4pLDFEt
    Last edited by TalkingPie; May-29-2020 at 09:31.

  18. #11
    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    Yes, your score looks much better than what you posted. And mind you, I was not being, nor am I about to be, critical in any negative way.

    There are many ways to clean up your score even more. Too many for me to list, but I'll point out a few in the first few pages.

    m. 4 - Does the div. & sul tasto of Vln 1 start with the first note or the second? You placed it over the second.

    m. 8 - The accidental for the trill is placed above, not to the right side of, the “tr”

    m. 8 - Vln I - technique markings should be placed directly above the note (without going beyond the bar line) and not touching the staff.

    m. 13 - 15 - String harmonic glissani. Have the first circle near the note like the rest by lifting the start of the slur

    m. 20-22 - Take Tuba slur through to its end

    m. 21 - WW. - align the dynamic marks (especially the hairpin diminuendo) in a straight line

    m. 22 - You need to show the fermatas of both the 4th & 5th eighth notes in all parts.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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  20. #12
    Junior Member TalkingPie's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input, it's very helpful!! I might have improved my orchestration knowledge, but I'm still an extremely messy person. Going to implement your feedback right now

  21. #13
    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    The cleaner the score, the more musicians will take you seriously. The more they have to wonder what exactly you want, the more they become annoyed at wasted time trying to figure it out.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    Man I love this. You can make new melodies so easily haha

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