Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 37 of 37

Thread: Automatic music : is it possible ?

  1. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,970
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAS View Post
    In chess, it means that they can beat any person, any person. (In a set of games. It might be that there is the occasion draw.) Kasparov was only able to play competitively using tricks, and the programmers discovered the tricks and closed those holes. (And he knew about the tricks because he had spoken to a significant developer of the programs.) There is a reason that you don't hear about big competitions of that sort anymore. The decision is already in.
    What book is this in?

    But you see, this proves my point: Kasparov made playing a computer interesting. Once they closed the holes, it once again became...Bo-oring! Perfection is BORING!
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Aug-01-2020 at 11:38.

  2. Likes Kyler Key liked this post
  3. #32
    Senior Member JAS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,829
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    What book is this in?

    But you see, this proves my point: Kasparov made playing a computer interesting. Once they closed the holes, it once again became...Bo-oring! Perfection is BORING!
    I don't know if it is in a book (although it might be), but it was well known at the time. (I know some of this because I had a cousin who worked on Deep Blue. Some of the details are recorded in the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_B...Garry_Kasparov.) One of the basic tricks was that Deep Blue played the opening moves from a record of openings, because the number of possibilities is so vast early in the game and its moves are somewhat limited by time. Kasparov learned from Steven Levy (a computer expert and chess player who was long involved in the pursuit of computer chess) that making a slight deviation from the standard sequence (but with the same final result) would start Deep Blue making moves without the benefit of playing from fixed openings. Once it hit its time limits, it would make the best move it had determined up to that point, and that might convey an advantage to Kasparov. Once programmers figured out what he was doing, they adjusted the algorithms to compensate for the small changes, and continue to play from fixed openings. At that point, Kasparov really could no longer compete with it. (Deep Blue got to be so good that Kasparov claimed at one point that they had substituted a human, which I suppose makes Deep Blue qualify for the Turing test. One wonders what human Kasparov thought they could bring in who could beat him.) The main proof is that Kasparov never accepted another challenge to Deep Blue, nor has anyone else.

    Edit: I don't believe that chess matches have a panel of judges who grant points or include a factor for being interesting.
    Last edited by JAS; Aug-01-2020 at 14:57.

  4. #33
    Senior Member JAS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,829
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    So, the main question might be what computers can do in the world of music. I do not expect a computer program to write music that rivals Beethoven or even Tchaikovsky, although they might generate perfectly pleasant imitations. I absolutely believe that they could write music indistinguishable from humans for the likes of Boulez and Ferneyhough. The only reason for this not to happen would be a lack of incentive. The market for such music is already too great a supply for the demand.
    Last edited by JAS; Aug-01-2020 at 14:46.

  5. #34
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire, England
    Posts
    10,004
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Pete Townshend tried it in 1971 - he fed biographical information on Meher Baba into a synthesiser set-up hoping that music would automatically result. It was a bit like musical alchemy and the experiment failed.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

  6. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,970
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAS View Post

    Edit: I don't believe that chess matches have a panel of judges who grant points or include a factor for being interesting.
    No, that job should be done by PR men, or writers of screenplays.

  7. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,970
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default

    Some scientists believe that the universe itself has an "operating frequency" which is a very low multiple of the tone Bb.

    So, here is my automatic conceptual piece:

    Exist.

  8. #37
    Junior Member Kyler Key's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Computers can do exactly what they're programmed to do 100% of the time and will output exactly what it says.

    The beauty of listening to a real musician is the very slight out of beat and outright mastery of an instrument. A computer can not compare to a human in the sense of bringing emotion to a piece. A computer can get a similar feel. A good synonym would be in film. Special effects are to practical effects as computerized music is to live music.

    They can both be amazing, but need to be used properly.

    Now to the automation question. Can you throw chords and scales together and have an algorithm choose what notes to play? Of course, but it will be very difficult to compare it to a live performance as it will have difficulty really passing the uncanny valley like special effects today.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •