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Thread: The Beatles appraised

  1. #241
    Senior Member Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    I'd personally have Sgt. Peppers in the middle of their output
    Pretty much my view as well.

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    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    Revolver has become the new favorite though. There are no questionable songs on Revolver, no filler, no duds. And, surprisingly, Sgt. Pepper sounds a bit dated. It's still a solid album, and I still enjoy it to death, but Revolver was really their zenith.
    As I said, a matter of taste. There are no questionable songs on Pepper, no filler - to my ears. And the idea of one of the two being a 'zenith' implies that what followed was a decline. Also a mere matter of opinion.

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    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    As I said, a matter of taste. There are no questionable songs on Pepper, no filler - to my ears. And the idea of one of the two being a 'zenith' implies that what followed was a decline. Also a mere matter of opinion.
    Yes, it's all a matter of opinion for a question like that… so here's what you do..

    You take all the songs from both albums, you mix them up randomly and then you rate them on a scale from 1 to 10.
    Add up the numbers and see which album has the highest number. For me it was Revolver.

    The problem with this, as every Beatles fan knows, is that the “concept” of the concept album also has a large value in the development of pop music (because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, especially in the arts).
    Last edited by Luchesi; Dec-01-2021 at 17:58.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

  4. #244
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    As I said, a matter of taste. There are no questionable songs on Pepper, no filler - to my ears. And the idea of one of the two being a 'zenith' implies that what followed was a decline. Also a mere matter of opinion.
    Let me rephrase that: All of the songs on REVOLVER are strong. There are no "filler" songs on Sgt. Pepper. One could say that the Beatles "zenith" was the albums RUBBER SOUL through THE WHITE ALBUM (released in 1968).

    But inbetween tWA and ABBEY ROAD (1969), there was only YELLOW SUBMARINE (1968) and LET IT BE (the release of
    which was delayed until mid-1970 even though it was recorded mostly in January 1969).

    Most folks regard ABBEY ROAD highly, a last "hurrah", and there's a few that think it's weak. In my mind it's brilliant.

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  6. #245
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Yes, it's all a matter of opinion for a question like that… so here's what you do..

    You take all the songs from both albums, you mix them up randomly and then you rate them on a scale from 1 to 10.
    Add up the numbers and see which album has the highest number. For me it was Revolver.

    The problem with this, as every Beatles fan knows, is that the “concept” of the concept album also has a large value in the development of pop music (because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, especially in the arts).
    Interesting concept, and you'd probably be right, even if you added PAPERBACK WRITER/RAIN to REVOLVER and PENNY LANE/STRAWBERRY FIELDS FOREVER to SGT. PEPPER.

    But, yes, you also have to view the two albums in their proper context. Both were groundbreaking, for different reasons.

  7. #246
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Yes, it's all a matter of opinion for a question like that… so here's what you do..

    You take all the songs from both albums, you mix them up randomly and then you rate them on a scale from 1 to 10.
    Add up the numbers and see which album has the highest number. For me it was Revolver.

    The problem with this, as every Beatles fan knows, is that the “concept” of the concept album also has a large value in the development of pop music (because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, especially in the arts).
    Your last para is right, though for me, the idea of the 'concept' album can be overstated. Your first suggestion fails to treat the albums as albums.

    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    Let me rephrase that: All of the songs on REVOLVER are strong. There are no "filler" songs on Sgt. Pepper. One could say that the Beatles "zenith" was the albums RUBBER SOUL through THE WHITE ALBUM (released in 1968).

    But inbetween tWA and ABBEY ROAD (1969), there was only YELLOW SUBMARINE (1968) and LET IT BE (the release of
    which was delayed until mid-1970 even though it was recorded mostly in January 1969).

    Most folks regard ABBEY ROAD highly, a last "hurrah", and there's a few that think it's weak. In my mind it's brilliant.
    Yes, your rephrasing takes a more balanced approach.

  8. #247
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Four Random Beatles Songs for a Monday Night


    So How Come (No One Loves Me) (1963)
    Mother Nature’s Son (1968)
    All Things Must Pass (1969)
    Keep Your Hands Off My Baby (1963)


    So How Come (No One Loves Me)

    This one’s a cover of a song written by Boudleaux Bryant and Felice Bryant, and originally released by The Omegas in May 1960, although it’s more likely that the Beatles were covering the cover by The Everly Brothers released in October 1960. The Beatles' cover was recorded for the radio show Pop Goes the Beatles July 1963. The original by the Omegas was a slow tempo ballad with barbershop vocals, while the Everlys reduced it to a 2-part vocal harmony and bumped the tempo up considerably.

    The Beatles took the tempo even faster. The vocal is by George Harrison.

    This was not officially released until 1994, on The Beatles’ compilation Live At the BBC.


    Mother Nature’s Son

    This Paul McCartney song was released on the 1968 The White Album, with only Paul singing and playing (with the addition of a brass arrangement by producer George Martin).


    All Things Must Pass

    Although this George Harrison song ended up being released as the title track on George’s 1970 All Things Must Pass, it was originally demoed by the Beatles during the 1969 Get Back sessions. And George was not the first to release it either; that distinction goes to Billy Preston on his album Encouraging Words, also released in September 1970, and beating George’s release of his own song by over two months.

    While it’s commonly thought that this was just another of George’s songs that was rejected by the band, they went through over 70 takes of the band rehearsing the song, painstakingly working out the deceptively complex harmonic progression. But when it came time to film the band performing songs, George wasn’t really keen on the idea. The performance day arrived, and George was left without any songs ready. I Me Mine had been rehearsed, but no one wanted to drag an organ to the roof, so the only song of George that had been properly recorded was For You Blue. I was a full year later that I Me Mine was properly recorded (January 1970), but as John had left the band in September, he wasn’t on that recording.

    The Beatles continued to record songs, including Something, which had been rehearsed as well. But when George came up with Here Comes the Sun, these last two became his songs for the album, and All Things Must Pass ended up being released by Preston, who had been brought in to the Get Back sessions.

    The clip here is cobbled together from edits of the various rehearsals, making a more-or-less complete Beatles version of the song.


    Keep Your Hands Off My Baby

    Here’s a little gem written by Carole King and Gerry Goffin, and originally released by Little Eva in September 1962.as a follow-up to her hit single Do The Loco-Motion.

    The Beatles recorded the song for their first appearance on the Saturday Club radio show. It was performed on 26 January 1963 at the BBC Playhouse Theatre in London, and first broadcast four days later. It was finally officially released on the 1994 Live At the BBC album. John Lennon sings lead.






  9. #248
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Four Random Wednesday Night Beatles Songs

    Another Girl (1965)
    Getting Better (1967)
    Ooh My Soul (1963)
    Hold Me Tight (1963)

    Interestingly enough, tonight's Random Four all feature a lead vocal from Paul McCartney.

    Another Girl (from Help!, 1965)

    And so it begins . . . This cynical song from Paul contains a few smug lyrics, and it’s generally considered filler by even hardcore Beatles fans, but had this been from some other band at the time, it could have been a hit single. Yeah, it’s a pretty catchy throwaway.

    That’s Paul on overdubbed lead guitar, including the short “last chance” outro.

    Of course, back in 1961 Paul was playing guitar in the group, with Stu Sutcliffe playing bass guitar until 1962.

    While it continues the bluesy swing-style of some of McCartney’s 1964 contributions, it breaks new ground by introducing a change of key in the bridge. Even in a song like this that is considered a lesser achievement, The Beatles exhibit musical growth.

    Some inventive backing vocals here as well.


    Getting Better (from Sgt. Pepper, 1967)

    This one is also a McCartney song, although Lennon made some contributions.

    There’s some interesting bass guitar work here from McCartney, from the two octave bounces in the verses, and two different bass line arrangements for the chorus; the first chorus features a walking bass line, while the other chorus have a rather contrapuntal feel.

    The backing vocals are rather interesting.


    Ooh My Soul (1963, Little Richard cover)

    Another vocal from Paul, on a song that was recorded for the BBC, and not released until decades later.


    Hold Me Tight (from With the Beatles, 1963)

    From their second album, this is yet another lead vocal from Paul. Crank up the bass and this is a fun little rocker, but it’s generally not praised by either fans or critics. Noteworthy? A little; there’s that oddball ritardando at the end. I like the “call and response” vocals in the chorus.





  10. #249
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    Watched Part 1 of Get Back today, which ends with George leaving the group. Fascinating watching the group dynamic as they work out and learn these songs. It will be interesting when the signature riffs and aspects of the arrangements are first found.

    Enjoying it.

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    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Watched Part 1 of Get Back today, which ends with George leaving the group. Fascinating watching the group dynamic as they work out and learn these songs. It will be interesting when the signature riffs and aspects of the arrangements are first found.

    Enjoying it.
    Me too. Watching Paul 'jamming' alone, though with the others watching, as he mutters a few words, then mumbles, while strumming chords that will become Get Back is magical.

    I was also struck by how the material we know in its final published form has sometimes come from unexpected sources, and also from way back. For the audience, we are misled into thinking that an album has been "written" in its entirety during the block of time between one album and the next. And that songs are created more or less whole.

    But John sings the tune of Jealous Guy with other words than those published in 1971. The band rehearse All Things Must Pass which doesn't see the light of day until George releases it in late 1970. Another song (can't remember which) draws on material written when they were The Quarrymen.

    The other thing that struck me was just how little John has to say. How insecure George is. And how much Paul leads.

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  13. #251
    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
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    Underrated but imho one of their best...
    'Listen, Mister god!
    Isn't it boring
    to dip your puffy eyes,
    every day, into a jelly of clouds?'

  14. #252
    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    ^ A rare color version by an even rarer version of the Beatles! The history behind the making of the song was pretty entertaining, but sad in a way. Paul had problems with John, George Martin, and Emerick quit partly because of the exchange between Martin and Macca.

    This is a pretty funny story.

    https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/ringo-s...t-the-beatles/
    "But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying..." Peter Sinfield

  15. #253
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamme View Post
    Underrated but imho one of their best...
    Not the Beatles, but a good fake. Lacks the spark of the original.

    The real thing:


  16. #254
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    Me too. Watching Paul 'jamming' alone, though with the others watching, as he mutters a few words, then mumbles, while strumming chords that will become Get Back is magical.

    I was also struck by how the material we know in its final published form has sometimes come from unexpected sources, and also from way back. For the audience, we are misled into thinking that an album has been "written" in its entirety during the block of time between one album and the next. And that songs are created more or less whole.

    But John sings the tune of Jealous Guy with other words than those published in 1971. The band rehearse All Things Must Pass which doesn't see the light of day until George releases it in late 1970. Another song (can't remember which) draws on material written when they were The Quarrymen.

    The other thing that struck me was just how little John has to say. How insecure George is. And how much Paul leads.
    Yes, I think we're surprised because the stories about them that we carry in our memories are so incomplete and naive. Fans are getting an eye-full and an ear-full. Young people who watch can estimate how much hype has accumulated, decade after decade.
    Gee, John is quiet and George insincere? Macca focused on getting the job done? No, they were just young men.
    Last edited by Luchesi; Dec-10-2021 at 01:12.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

  17. #255
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Yes, I think we're surprised because the stories about them that we carry in our memories are so incomplete and naive.
    Except you're not 'we', are you? You have your own revisionist version. As for me - how do you know that my memories are incomplete and naive?

    You don't, except to the extent that almost certainly everybody's memories are only a personal accumulation, not an objective one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Gee, John is quiet and George insincere? Macca focused on getting the job done? No, they were just young men.
    Er...that should be 'insecure', not 'insincere'.

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