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Thread: The Beatles appraised

  1. #91
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiast View Post
    The Danny Boyle film, Yesterday, provides the perfect appraisal of the Beatles legacy. Watch it if you don't get it or have started to hear them as stale.
    Yes, the premise of the film (one of them) was that these ordinary people and musicians and workers in music would hear a Beatles song for the first time and their eyes would light up! All of the different sorts of people, and even disinterested family members. Funny scenes, but quite believeable. This happens with just the one guy singing/guitar!
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

  2. #92
    Junior Member Ice Berg's Avatar
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    Side B of Yellow Submarine is underrated.

    Top fifteen Beatles songs:
    1. Real Love
    2. Long, Long, Long
    3. She Loves You

    no particular order:
    Yes it Is
    And Your Bird Can Sing
    For No One
    Anna (Go to Him)
    It's Only Love
    Long Tall Sally (Live at the Star Club, 1962)
    Only a Northern Song
    Any Time at All
    Hey Bulldog
    All of Sgt. Pepper (it's a suite)
    I Want You (She's So Heavy)
    It's All Too Much

    I would also highly recommend everyone listen to as many of the solo albums as they can stomach. My personal favorites:

    George - Dark Horse; All Things Must Pass; Thirty-Three and a Third; Extra Texture; Brainwashed; Living in the Material World

    John - Plastic Ono Band; Walls and Bridges; Live Peace in Toronto 1969

    Paul - Venus and Mars; Wings at the Speed of Sound; McCartney II; RAM; Back to the Egg

    Ringo - Ringo the 4th (one of the most underrated albums of all time); Ringo; Goodnight Vienna

    Beatles fans should also check out the first three Klaatu albums; the Harry Nilsson albums "Harry," "Nilsson Schmilsson," and "Son of Schmilsson;" and all (and I do mean all) of Badfinger's output.
    Last edited by Ice Berg; Aug-31-2021 at 09:00.

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  4. #93
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Interesting choices

    I wouldn't put Wings at the Speed of Sound on a "must listen" listen. Three good songs. The rest of the album is fairly uneven. Replace it with Band on the Run and you've got a deal.

  5. #94
    Junior Member Ice Berg's Avatar
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    Band on the Run is indeed probably more essential than Speed of Sound; oversight on my part. But, I do think Speed of Sound is highly underappreciated with "Time to Hide" (possibly Denny Laine's strongest contribution to any Wings album), "Must Do Something...," "Silly Love Songs" (which has a top-tier bass line), "Warm and Beautiful," and "Beware My Love" really shining in particular. It may be time for a public reappraisal. People also (fairly) thought McCartney II was spotty until quite recently, but the influence that album has had is much clearer in the rear view.

  6. #95
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Berg View Post
    Band on the Run is indeed probably more essential than Speed of Sound; oversight on my part. But, I do think Speed of Sound is highly underappreciated with "Time to Hide" (possibly Denny Laine's strongest contribution to any Wings album), "Must Do Something...," "Silly Love Songs" (which has a top-tier bass line), "Warm and Beautiful," and "Beware My Love" really shining in particular. It may be time for a public reappraisal. People also (fairly) thought McCartney II was spotty until quite recently, but the influence that album has had is much clearer in the rear view.
    Good points.

    Yeah, I'll concede "Speed of Sound". I suppose that a few duff tracks, and the overall in your face poppiness of the two hit songs tainted the rest of the album. The songs you mention ARE good.

    I like McC II too. It's quirky.

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  8. #96
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Berg View Post
    Side B of Yellow Submarine is underrated.

    Top fifteen Beatles songs:
    1. Real Love
    2. Long, Long, Long
    3. She Loves You

    no particular order:
    Yes it Is
    And Your Bird Can Sing
    For No One
    Anna (Go to Him)
    It's Only Love
    Long Tall Sally (Live at the Star Club, 1962)
    Only a Northern Song
    Any Time at All
    Hey Bulldog
    All of Sgt. Pepper (it's a suite)
    I Want You (She's So Heavy)
    It's All Too Much

    I would also highly recommend everyone listen to as many of the solo albums as they can stomach. My personal favorites:

    George - Dark Horse; All Things Must Pass; Thirty-Three and a Third; Extra Texture; Brainwashed; Living in the Material World

    John - Plastic Ono Band; Walls and Bridges; Live Peace in Toronto 1969

    Paul - Venus and Mars; Wings at the Speed of Sound; McCartney II; RAM; Back to the Egg

    Ringo - Ringo the 4th (one of the most underrated albums of all time); Ringo; Goodnight Vienna

    Beatles fans should also check out the first three Klaatu albums; the Harry Nilsson albums "Harry," "Nilsson Schmilsson," and "Son of Schmilsson;" and all (and I do mean all) of Badfinger's output.

    Why is Real Love number one? anything you can tell us..
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

  9. #97
    Senior Member Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Berg View Post
    Beatles fans should also check out the first three Klaatu albums; the Harry Nilsson albums "Harry," "Nilsson Schmilsson," and "Son of Schmilsson;" and all (and I do mean all) of Badfinger's output.

    ...and Emitt Rhodes's first album, and the Zombies' Odessey and Oracle.

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  11. #98
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    ...and Emitt Rhodes's first album, and the Zombies' Odessey and Oracle.
    Yep - that Emitt Rhodes album is very McCartney-esque. I've always thought that XTC sound like where The Beatles might have gone if they'd stayed together.
    Last edited by SanAntone; Sep-04-2021 at 00:24.

  12. #99
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Four Random Songs From the Beatles for a Friday Evening

    You've Got To Hide Your Love Away (1965)
    Baby It's You (1963)
    Lady Madonna (1968)
    A Shot of Rhythm and Blues (1963)

    Annotated

    Three sung by John and one from Paul. A rather diverse foursome of songs.

    You've Got To Hide Your Love Away (1965)

    From the album Help!, their fifth studio album. An early example of Lennon's self-reflection in his lyrics. A bit unusual that the solo comes at the end of the song, and it being played by a tenor flute and alto flute playing in octaves.

    Baby It's You (1963)

    A cover of a Burt Bacharach/Mack Davis/Luther Dixon song that was a Top Ten Hit for the original artist The Shirelles in 1961. The Beatles recorded a studio version for their 1963 debut album Please Please Me. This is a live version recorded for BBC Radio.

    Lady Madonna (1968)

    This mono-only single charted at #1 for two weeks, and remained in the Top Ten for 6 weeks. A stereo version wasn't released until 1970, on the compilation album Hey Jude.

    A Shot of Rhythm and Blues (1963)

    This song was first recorded by US soul singer Arthur Alexander in 1961. The Beatles recorded the song three times for the BBC in 1963, with John Lennon on lead vocals. One of the versions was included on the album Live at the BBC, released in 1994.





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  14. #100
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Call Me Caroline continues with her "First Listens" of The Beatles. She's up to their 4th album, Beatles For Sale, released late in 1964, which may be their most tired-sounding album.

    By this time their touring, recording, filming schedules were constant, and they really didn't have anything resembling normal lives. While Beatlemania didn't hit in the US until the very beginning of 1964, their manager Brian Epstein had had them on a treadmill of concert gigs since they let him take on managerial duties early December 1961.

    As a result they had to dip back into their earlier setlists of covers when they discovered that they didn't have enough original material, as they'd had on their previous album A Hard Day's Night. Six of the fourteen songs were covers. That said, this may be the meanest and rockiest album in their catalog, in spite of it's pointed folk/country/rock/acoustic/eclectic feel.

    Last edited by pianozach; Sep-04-2021 at 17:11.

  15. #101
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    Call Me Caroline

    I was younger than she is (in my early teens), but my friends and I had a different take on the fab 4. Girls and boys definitely saw them differently. My peers at the time were mostly all music students. We assumed that they were from the London culture (if you know what I mean). We didn't want Beatle haircuts or Beatle boots or their shiny suits. They were cartoonish to us, unlike the Stones and the Kinks and the Animals. Later they created some fine piano sheets. But rock 'n' roll was always done with more drama and more gravitas by the other groups. I didn't see any influence by the Beatles , but I was very young.


    Read why they ended up with Beatle haircuts. Read how hard they worked at selling to young girls. Revisionism has flowered and bloomed, especially in the last few decades with round-the-clock media looking for ready-made material for profit.
    Last edited by Luchesi; Sep-04-2021 at 18:46.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

  16. #102
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    I was younger than she is (in my early teens), but my friends and I had a different take on the fab 4. Girls and boys definitely saw them differently. My peers at the time were mostly all music students. We assumed that they were from the London culture (if you know what I mean). We didn't want Beatle haircuts or Beatle boots or their shiny suits. They were cartoonish to us, unlike the Stones and the Kinks and the Animals. Later they created some fine piano sheets. But rock 'n' roll was always done with more drama and more gravitas by the other groups. I didn't see any influence by the Beatles , but I was very young.


    Read why they ended up with Beatle haircuts. Read how hard they worked at selling to young girls. Revisionism has flowered and bloomed, especially in the last few decades with round-the-clock media looking for ready-made material for profit.
    My late older brother also preferred the harder edged sounds of groups such as "the Stones and the Kinks and the Animals", but it should be noted that these groups would not have been given a first look if it hadn't been for the inroads made by The Beatles. In fact, The Rolling Stones were recommended to a Decca Records' A&R guy by George Harrison, and their first hit was a Beatles song.

    And while the Beatles had been together since before 1959, churning out live gigs like they were free hot lunches, the bands you mentioned weren't even formed until 1963.

    I can see that, in effect, The Beatles were effectively marketed as the first "Boy Band", and for the first couple of years they played that deck to the hilt. They were heavily merchandised (for which they received little or no compensation) as well, as you mentioned.

    But in terms of influence, it's difficult to grasp just how influential they were, not only musically, but culturally as well.

    They played their own instruments, both live and in the studio,
    They wrote their own songs,
    They had four lead singers, and could sing excellent harmonies,
    They were the first to play in a stadium, and so many other musical, technical, and marketing innovations and whatnot that are like some sort of bottomless cup of coffee.

    And that was prior to 1965, when they REALLY started expanding the popular music landscape.

    But prior to The Beatles, popular music had really stagnated. Go back and listen to the Billboard Top 100 Singles for 1962 and 1963 and you'll see what I mean. There is so much dreck and flotsam, mounds of treacly bubblegum crap. Seriously, make yourself playlists of the Top 100 for 1961-1963 and you'll suddenly appreciate how The Beatles breathed new life into Pop Music. Yeah, there were some great songs from those years, but the majority of songs on those lists are atrociously awful.

    [I actually did this last year, made lists of the Top 100 and the hits' B-Sides, so 200 songs per year, from #100 to #1. Some of it was eye-rolling]

    No, they weren't marketed as a rock group, but they certainly could rock. No, instead (likely much to the chagrin of group founder John Lennon) they were "cleaned up" and mass marketed to the girls. Of course, a lot of guys found a lot to like about the band as well . . . man, they were TIGHT, unlike some of the garage band punkers that joined the music scene a year later, like the ones you mentioned.

    Here's Today's Four Not-s0-Random Early Beatles rockin' covers

    Twist and Shout - A hit for The Isley Brothers in 1962, but originally released by The Top Notes in 1961.
    Money (That's What I Want) - The first big hit written by Berry Gordy, the founder of Motown Records
    Long Tall Sally - Co-songwriter Little Richard hit #1 on the R&B Charts with this in 1956.
    Slow Down - A Larry Williams tune released in 1958.





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  18. #103
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    You see them (Beatlemania) through the lens of the media exploiters (especially obvious since that guitar game was a commercial success). It's a fortunate outcome, because pop should be fun and even magical.
    I paid attention to the first hand effects among my peers, girl friends and even some of the moms, and that's what I'm reporting.

    Cultural change? Most of their target audience was too young to care. They weren't Carnaby fashion enthusiasts, or any fashion trend, as I remember it.

    We wanted to hear what new electric guitar effects we could use for musical expression. Stones, Kinks etc. etc.. not Beatle songs. The Beach Boys were singing about hot cars and dragging. 'Much more interesting than simple love songs for young girls. Of course, again, it's a fortunate outcome that you have your grander view of the times. We don’t want the more sober view to prevail, it gets shot down. Knowledgeable fans pile on. Who has the reliable memories from so long ago? Maybe I’ve discussed this so often with musicians (decade after decade) that I’ve generated false memories.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

  19. #104
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Who has the reliable memories from so long ago?
    In one sense, nobody has: memories are not always reliable.

    In another, the problem is that everybody who has a memory of listening to the Beatles at the time, and has a personal response to report is a reliable witness; certainly my memories are as reliable as anyone else's. Collate them together - there's thousands over time - and you have a massive account of disparate subjective viewpoints, including those of the "average fan", the music critic, the cultural commentator, the news outlets etc etc.

    That's history for you, aside from the "facts" and the numbers.

    Now, what, exactly, is your experience and why do you feel that it gives you such a different perspective that entitles you to refer to others' revisionism?
    Last edited by Forster; Sep-06-2021 at 08:53.

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  21. #105
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Four Randomized Beatles Songs

    Eleanor Rigby
    A Day In the Life
    Blackbird
    Penny Lane





    Last edited by pianozach; Sep-08-2021 at 02:30.

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