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Thread: Interval Names

  1. #16
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    When I learned to recognize and name intervals, it was our ear training. I'd hear it (Cb-F#) as a fifth. So for me, I learned intervals as sounds.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jul-28-2020 at 00:57.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    When I learned to recognize and name intervals, it was our ear training. I'd hear it (Cb-F#) as a fifth. So for me, I learned intervals as sounds.
    Cool! From listening, it would be a Perfect 5th for sure. But some intervals, due to voice-leading, need to be spelled in a weird way. I am trying to find as many as I can and compile a list here.

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    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    In more extended harmony and atonality I've found that sometimes it's best to consider spelling an individual part from the players perspective, rather than the correct (as perceived by the composer and his methodologies) spelling. So voice leading yes, absolutely, but a more focused and less correct approach to the part can aid practicality in a chromatic environment, especially one that does not adhere to more traditional resolutions of chord members.

    As an aside, I think MR's learning of intervals is a sound way (pun intended) to initially learn and train the ear. I found that the practise of mentally singing separately say a maj.6th i.e perhaps c and then a, with a few seconds between them and then gradually reducing the time between them until they are heard as one, eventually enabled me to hear all intervals. This concept can then be extended, so that one could then mentally hear a maj.6th and then a few seconds later, imagine another note and gradually bring the two mentally together as before. In this way, one acquires important harmonic, mental hearing agility and building blocks to work with. Anyway I digress....
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jul-28-2020 at 09:23.
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  6. #19
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    So ... as of now, I have found 2 pieces with such intervals :

    1) Chopin's Prelude in A Minor Op. 28. No. 2 ... bar 12, 3rd beat & a half - a Doubly Diminished Octave
    2) Liszt's Au lac de Wallenstadt from Années de pèlerinage ... bar 52 - a Compound Doubly Augmented 4th

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh375 View Post
    In more extended harmony and atonality I've found that sometimes it's best to consider spelling an individual part from the players perspective, rather than the correct (as perceived by the composer and his methodologies) spelling. So voice leading yes, absolutely, but a more focused and less correct approach to the part can aid practicality in a chromatic environment, especially one that does not adhere to more traditional resolutions of chord members.

    As an aside, I think MR's learning of intervals is a sound way (pun intended) to initially learn and train the ear. I found that the practise of mentally singing separately say a maj.6th i.e perhaps c and then a, with a few seconds between them and then gradually reducing the time between them until they are heard as one, eventually enabled me to hear all intervals. This concept can then be extended, so that one could then mentally hear a maj.6th and then a few seconds later, imagine another note and gradually bring the two mentally together as before. In this way, one acquires important harmonic, mental hearing building blocks to work with. Any way I digress....
    Good to know. Thanks for the tip.

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    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    Whoa! What is this piece? And a chord with a flat 5 and a dim 7th?

    F#°7-5/Cb? Dang!
    respelled its B D# F# A, just a dom 7 chord, so B7 if it was on a jazz chart, now it resolves to tonic Gm with the augmented^2 fourth expanding to a Major 6, which is the rationale for the odd spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    Whoa! What is this piece? And a chord with a flat 5 and a dim 7th?

    F#°7-5/Cb? Dang!
    I thought all diminished seventh chords had a flat five.

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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    I thought all diminished seventh chords had a flat five.
    True true ... with its naturally flat 5, it gets flattened once more ...

    so in that example :

    F# - A - Cb - Eb bass Cb

    How should that be correctly named in jazz chord?

    (scratch head)

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    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    True true ... with its naturally flat 5, it gets flattened once more ...

    so in that example :

    F# - A - Cb - Eb bass Cb

    How should that be correctly named in jazz chord?

    (scratch head)

    ...well as an ex jazz guitarist, I'd just play a dom.7th on B just like Bwv 1080 said and to hell with the spelling. Practicalities first, theory later, although in this case I'm not sure the theory is worth it anyway as the labelling would be unnecessarily complicated. Thank God for enharmonic thinking as Cb dom.7th would also lead to a key I wouldn't particularly want to be in...
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jul-30-2020 at 12:27.
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    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    True true ... with its naturally flat 5, it gets flattened once more ...

    so in that example :

    F# - A - Cb - Eb bass Cb

    How should that be correctly named in jazz chord?

    (scratch head)
    Eb=D#, Cb=B, so BD#F#A = B7 (or maybe Cb7)
    Last edited by Bwv 1080; Jul-30-2020 at 21:46.

  13. #26
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh375 View Post
    ...well as an ex jazz guitarist, I'd just play a dom.7th on B just like Bwv 1080 said and to hell with the spelling. Practicalities first, theory later, although in this case I'm not sure the theory is worth it anyway as the labelling would be unnecessarily complicated. Thank God for enharmonic thinking as Cb dom.7th would also lead to a key I wouldn't particularly want to be in...
    Most charts of Girl from Ipanema (in F) have a Cb7 as the second chord of the bridge, following the GbM7 (which is in Db)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Most charts of Girl from Ipanema (in F) have a Cb7 as the second chord of the bridge, following the GbM7 (which is in Db)
    True, it's only for one bar though and it does move to an F sharp minor 9th rather than heading on down to the flat side. (..he says trying to justify his lazy musicianship..). I was really just referring to the concept of absurd chord naming, more than seriously dissing poor Cb7 (along with dissing a potential jam in F flat).

    I love Jobim btw, my favourite of his to play was 'How Insensitive'. I used to love riffing over that chord sequence.
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jul-31-2020 at 09:20.
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    Hmmm... enharmonic spelling certainly takes care of the problem ... but does this mean there is no other way of theoretically naming them without re-spelling?

  16. #29
    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    Cb maj. ++4/+6.....?

    Why though? It has no practical use whatsoever and no jazzer will thank you for it. I can see it on a manuscript, spelt as such for voice leading, but not for chord shorthand. Always err on the side of the clearest, simplest notation possible.
    Last edited by mikeh375; Aug-04-2020 at 15:29.
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  17. #30
    Junior Member Kyler Key's Avatar
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    The problem you have is you would need to add all the other intervals otherwise it would not fit and would not mesh at all with the rest of the scale. It would essentially be useless and would ruin the piece you attempt to write unless you add all the others intervals.

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