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Thread: Interval Names

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    Default Interval Names

    Hi everyone. Just want to throw this out there :

    Without re-spelling the pitch names, how would you name the interval between a Cb and an F#?

    It would sound like a Perfect 5th when played on a piano. But theoretically, it is a 4th and bigger than an Augmented 4th.

    There are many other intervals like Cb to Dx, Cb to E#, Cx to Eb, etc. All can occur theoretically but are there names for them without re-spelling?

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    It's a doubly augmented fourth. Can't think of any situation where writing it that way would make sense, which is why one doesn't often hear about doubly augmented intervals. If one wishes to name even more silly intervals one need only add prefixes like triply or quadruply.
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Jul-27-2020 at 18:31.

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    Technically, it can happen in 12 Tone music ... but why bother?

    Doubly? Triply? Quadruply? Really? ^^

    This reminds me of cycling through the "hemidemisemi" when a new flag or tail is added in the Tree of Note Values. I.e. after hemidemisemiquaver comes the semihemidemisemiquaver ... then demisemihemidemisemiquaver ... then hemidemisemihemidemisemiquaver ...

    Haha ... I find it very amusing.

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    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    also pianissississississississississ...immo, in theory anyhow......
    Last edited by mikeh375; Jul-27-2020 at 18:40.
    New website and some new music......www.mikehewer.com

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    By the way, Diminished Prime does not exist.

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    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    Hi everyone. Just want to throw this out there :

    Without re-spelling the pitch names, how would you name the interval between a Cb and an F#?
    its a '7' (and also poor notation)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    its a '7' (and also poor notation)
    aaah there are 7 half steps. But the interval is still a 4th.

    C to Db is a Minor 2nd
    C to D is a Major 2nd
    C to Eb is a Minor 3rd
    C to E is a Major 3rd
    C to F is a Perfect 4th
    etc.

    You are right about it being a poor notation, but it could theoretically happen in 12-Tone compositions.
    Last edited by RubberDuckie; Jul-27-2020 at 22:45. Reason: Additional info

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    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    aaah there are 7 half steps. But the interval is still a 4th.

    C to Db is a Minor 2nd
    C to D is a Major 2nd
    C to Eb is a Minor 3rd
    C to E is a Major 3rd
    C to F is a Perfect 4th
    etc.

    You are right about it being a poor notation, but it could theoretically happen in 12-Tone compositions.
    How? in 12-tone, its just 7

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    Senior Member SuperTonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    Technically, it can happen in 12 Tone music ... but why bother?

    Doubly? Triply? Quadruply? Really? ^^

    This reminds me of cycling through the "hemidemisemi" when a new flag or tail is added in the Tree of Note Values. I.e. after hemidemisemiquaver comes the semihemidemisemiquaver ... then demisemihemidemisemiquaver ... then hemidemisemihemidemisemiquaver ...

    Haha ... I find it very amusing.
    In 12 tone music theory, intervals are named by the number of half steps between the notes, which is in the case you provided is 7. The standard interval naming conventions have tonal implications that most 12 tone theorists prefer to avoid.
    Last edited by SuperTonic; Jul-27-2020 at 22:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    How? in 12-tone, its just 7
    In 12-Tone compositions (Second Viennese School), these intervals can occur between two voices. For example, someone could be playing an A# while another holding an Eb below it. The interval is a 4th between E & A ... with the accidentals added, it is still a 4th, but the quality (sonority name of interval) is no longer Major or Minor or Perfect or Augmented or Diminished because it is bigger than an Augmented 4th.

    E to A = Perfect 4th
    E to A# = Augmented 4th
    Eb to A# = bigger than Augmented 4th

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTonic View Post
    In 12 tone music theory, intervals are named by the number of half steps between the notes, which is in the case you provided is 7. The standard interval naming conventions have tonal implications that most 12 tone theorists prefer to avoid.
    True. You are right.

    It was a bad example.

    There is an interval in Chopin's Prelude in A Minor Op. 28. No. 2 ... bar 12, 3rd beat & a half ... the left hand plays Cx and C natural above it.
    Last edited by RubberDuckie; Jul-27-2020 at 23:46. Reason: Additional info

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    True. You are right.

    It was a bad example. These intervals exist only theoretically then?
    Not necessarily. Unable to resist a twisted harmonic problem, I managed to use that doubly augmented 4th in a sentence. It occurs as part of an altered vii4/3 in G minor:

    Aug aug.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Jul-27-2020 at 23:55.

    Your frogs make me shudder with intolerable loathing and I shall be miserable for the rest of my life remembering them.
    — Mikhail Bulgakov, The Fatal Eggs

    Originality is a device untalented people use to impress other untalented people and to protect themselves from talented people.
    — Basil Valentine

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast View Post
    Not necessarily. Unable to resist a twisted harmonic problem, I managed to use that doubly augmented 4th in a sentence. It occurs as part of an altered vii4/3 in G minor:

    Aug aug.jpg
    Whoa! What is this piece? And a chord with a flat 5 and a dim 7th?

    F#°7-5/Cb? Dang!

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberDuckie View Post
    Whoa! What is this piece? And a chord with a flat 5 and a dim 7th?

    F#°7-5/Cb? Dang!
    I just wrote a little passage in G minor to see if I could coherently use the peculiar interval in a tonal style. Just an exercise for this thread.
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Jul-28-2020 at 00:05.

    Your frogs make me shudder with intolerable loathing and I shall be miserable for the rest of my life remembering them.
    — Mikhail Bulgakov, The Fatal Eggs

    Originality is a device untalented people use to impress other untalented people and to protect themselves from talented people.
    — Basil Valentine

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast View Post
    I just wrote a little passage in G minor to see if I could coherently use the peculiar interval in a tonal style.
    Nice! An original! Copyrighted? ^^

    Do check out the interval in Chopin's Prelude in A Minor Op. 28. No. 2 ... bar 12, 3rd beat & a half ... and see the doubly diminished octave.
    Last edited by RubberDuckie; Jul-28-2020 at 00:08. Reason: Additional info

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