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Thread: Was Wagner religious?

  1. #91
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    It's all in good fun, I certainly don't hate Wagner but embracing the deconstructionism that we have full license to use today, and honestly if Wagner gets banned it would put a smile on my face, he's already banned in Israel and today statues are falling like flies so it's possible. If the virus lasts a long time I might write a few books under a pseudonym.
    I've got sad news for you. Wagner will be here exciting people's imaginations when you are no longer even a pile of dust and ashes, so you may as well indulge in your juvenile fantasies and dopey smiles now and get them over with. Yes, please do go off and write books (which i suspect no one will read), or compose more of that culture-redeeming music (which I suspect no one will listen to). Just spare this forum more of your pontificating. Too many threads have been hopelessly disfigured by it.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    I've got sad news for you. Wagner will be here exciting people's imaginations when you are no longer even a pile of dust and ashes, so you may as well indulge in your juvenile fantasies and dopey smiles now and get them over with. Yes, please do go off and write books (which i suspect no one will read), or compose more of that culture-redeeming music (which I suspect no one will listen to). Just spare this forum more of your pontificating. Too many threads have been hopelessly disfigured by it.
    You are such a fanboy... I mostly just reminded myself that I’m not turning into Franz Kafka under the coronavirus. A lot of truth came out of it though, and it was fun.

    I was also convinced to be nice to you, so be thankful.

    Good night.

  4. #93
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    You are such a fanboy... I mostly just reminded myself that I’m not turning into Franz Kafka under the coronavirus. A lot of truth came out of it though, and it was fun.

    I was also convinced to be nice to you, so be thankful.

    Good night.
    Goodbye would be better.

  5. #94
    Senior Member RogerWaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    I'm being so polite to you, I know you're easily offended, but man do you beg to get trolled, it's like you enjoy it.
    Man do you beg to be BANNED! Off with his head!

  6. #95
    Senior Member Enthusiast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    You can tell Wagner that when you meet him. I can see through Wagner's lust precisely because of the similar will, even though mine is firmly under reason, it's a powerful one.
    Here's a post I wish I hadn't read. It'll give me nightmares.

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  8. #96
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    Please refrain from personal comments. The thread OP asks if Wagner was religious. Please focus on that issue rather than each other.

  9. #97
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    Wagner promises eternal lust through moving from partner to partner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Seriously, what planet are you from? There is not a single suggestion of this in any of Wagner's works.
    Ah, but you're forgetting what is perhaps Wagner's greatest work: Don Giovanni!
    Last edited by amfortas; Aug-14-2020 at 17:12.
    Alan

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  11. #98
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amfortas View Post
    Ah, but you're forgetting what is perhaps Wagner's greatest work: Don Giovanni!
    ........................

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  13. #99
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Wagner did not believe in God but he was fascinated by religious symbols as he is shown in his work. He of course wanted to replace religion with art and mainly his own art with himself as an object of adoration. As a monstrous egoist he had endless powers of self-adoration and sought those who would reflect his own self-obsession - himself and his art. It has of course become somewhat of a religion for some of his admirers and they faithfully make their way to Bayreuth to pay homage at the shrine. I can remember chuckling at the program where Stephen Fry went to Bayreuth - The guy was treating the theatre as some sort of shrine and lowering his voice as he went in in reverence. I kept wanting to say ‘No Stephen! It’s a theatre! It’s a theatre which makes lots of noise with lots of noisy instruments!’ But that is how the Wagnerian faithful view it
    Last edited by DavidA; Aug-15-2020 at 07:24.

  14. #100
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    What are some good places to start for reading what Wagner thought about religion?

  15. #101
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Wagner did not believe in God but he was fascinated by religious symbols as he is shown in his work. He of course wanted to replace religion with art and mainly his own art with himself as an object of adoration. As a monstrous egoist he had endless powers of self-adoration and sought those who would reflect his own self-obsession - himself and his art.
    and that's why his works are so good and he is the face of opera world.

  16. #102
    Senior Member Rogerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriesba View Post
    What are some good places to start for reading what Wagner thought about religion?
    https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org...Richard_Wagner
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain

    "Liberté, égalité, fraternité"

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  18. #103
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    and that's why his works are so good and he is the face of opera world.
    If you happen to like Teutonic self obsessed opera

  19. #104
    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriesba View Post
    What are some good places to start for reading what Wagner thought about religion?
    There’s a webpage https://monsalvat.no/ which is an absolute goldmine and a good place to start. It’s a bit of a labyrinth but that only makes it more interesting to discover.

    There are also the essays which surely can give you a lot of ideas about Wagner, his art, and religious ideas but they are so complex that I haven’t yet read any of them fully and I’m not entirely sure whether they’re the best place start.

    I’m not overly well acquainted with all the books written about Wagner. Those certainly contain a lot of information about Wagner’s religious ideas as well but maybe someone else can recommend those. In general, I think if you just read stuff about Wagner, more specific knowledge will just start to accumulate.
    Last edited by annaw; Aug-15-2020 at 08:13.

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  21. #105
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    If you happen to like Teutonic self obsessed opera
    for instance, how are Parsifal or Tristan und Isolde 'teutonic' or self-obsessed?

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