Was Wagner religious?

**Woodduck** · Aug-14-2020, 08:53

Originally Posted by 1996D

It's all in good fun, I certainly don't hate Wagner but embracing the deconstructionism that we have full license to use today, and honestly if Wagner gets banned it would put a smile on my face, he's already banned in Israel and today statues are falling like flies so it's possible. If the virus lasts a long time I might write a few books under a pseudonym.

I've got sad news for you. Wagner will be here exciting people's imaginations when you are no longer even a pile of dust and ashes, so you may as well indulge in your juvenile fantasies and dopey smiles now and get them over with. Yes, please do go off and write books (which i suspect no one will read), or compose more of that culture-redeeming music (which I suspect no one will listen to). Just spare this forum more of your pontificating. Too many threads have been hopelessly disfigured by it.

**1996D** · Aug-14-2020, 09:01

Originally Posted by Woodduck

I've got sad news for you. Wagner will be here exciting people's imaginations when you are no longer even a pile of dust and ashes, so you may as well indulge in your juvenile fantasies and dopey smiles now and get them over with. Yes, please do go off and write books (which i suspect no one will read), or compose more of that culture-redeeming music (which I suspect no one will listen to). Just spare this forum more of your pontificating. Too many threads have been hopelessly disfigured by it.

You are such a fanboy... I mostly just reminded myself that I’m not turning into Franz Kafka under the coronavirus. A lot of truth came out of it though, and it was fun.

I was also convinced to be nice to you, so be thankful.

Good night.

**Woodduck** · Aug-14-2020, 09:16

Originally Posted by 1996D

You are such a fanboy... I mostly just reminded myself that I’m not turning into Franz Kafka under the coronavirus. A lot of truth came out of it though, and it was fun.

I was also convinced to be nice to you, so be thankful.

Good night.

Goodbye would be better.

**RogerWaters** · Aug-14-2020, 11:26

Originally Posted by 1996D

I'm being so polite to you, I know you're easily offended, but man do you beg to get trolled, it's like you enjoy it.

Man do you beg to be BANNED! Off with his head!

**Enthusiast** · Aug-14-2020, 12:52

Originally Posted by 1996D

You can tell Wagner that when you meet him. I can see through Wagner's lust precisely because of the similar will, even though mine is firmly under reason, it's a powerful one.

Here's a post I wish I hadn't read. It'll give me nightmares.

**mmsbls** · Aug-14-2020, 15:24

Please refrain from personal comments. The thread OP asks if Wagner was religious. Please focus on that issue rather than each other.

**amfortas** · Aug-14-2020, 17:11

Originally Posted by 1996D

Wagner promises eternal lust through moving from partner to partner.

Originally Posted by Woodduck

Seriously, what planet are you from? There is not a single suggestion of this in any of Wagner's works.

Ah, but you're forgetting what is perhaps Wagner's greatest work: Don Giovanni!

**Woodduck** · Aug-14-2020, 17:43

Originally Posted by amfortas

Ah, but you're forgetting what is perhaps Wagner's greatest work: Don Giovanni!

........................

**DavidA** · Aug-15-2020, 07:23

Wagner did not believe in God but he was fascinated by religious symbols as he is shown in his work. He of course wanted to replace religion with art and mainly his own art with himself as an object of adoration. As a monstrous egoist he had endless powers of self-adoration and sought those who would reflect his own self-obsession - himself and his art. It has of course become somewhat of a religion for some of his admirers and they faithfully make their way to Bayreuth to pay homage at the shrine. I can remember chuckling at the program where Stephen Fry went to Bayreuth - The guy was treating the theatre as some sort of shrine and lowering his voice as he went in in reverence. I kept wanting to say ‘No Stephen! It’s a theatre! It’s a theatre which makes lots of noise with lots of noisy instruments!’ But that is how the Wagnerian faithful view it

**adriesba** · Aug-15-2020, 07:32

What are some good places to start for reading what Wagner thought about religion?

**Zhdanov** · Aug-15-2020, 07:46

Originally Posted by DavidA

Wagner did not believe in God but he was fascinated by religious symbols as he is shown in his work. He of course wanted to replace religion with art and mainly his own art with himself as an object of adoration. As a monstrous egoist he had endless powers of self-adoration and sought those who would reflect his own self-obsession - himself and his art.

and that's why his works are so good and he is the face of opera world.

**Rogerx** · Aug-15-2020, 07:51

Originally Posted by adriesba

What are some good places to start for reading what Wagner thought about religion?

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org...Richard_Wagner

**DavidA** · Aug-15-2020, 07:52

Originally Posted by Zhdanov

and that's why his works are so good and he is the face of opera world.

If you happen to like Teutonic self obsessed opera

**annaw** · Aug-15-2020, 08:07

Originally Posted by adriesba

What are some good places to start for reading what Wagner thought about religion?

There’s a webpage https://monsalvat.no/ which is an absolute goldmine and a good place to start. It’s a bit of a labyrinth but that only makes it more interesting to discover.

There are also the essays which surely can give you a lot of ideas about Wagner, his art, and religious ideas but they are so complex that I haven’t yet read any of them fully and I’m not entirely sure whether they’re the best place start.

I’m not overly well acquainted with all the books written about Wagner. Those certainly contain a lot of information about Wagner’s religious ideas as well but maybe someone else can recommend those. In general, I think if you just read stuff about Wagner, more specific knowledge will just start to accumulate.

**Zhdanov** · Aug-15-2020, 08:12

Originally Posted by DavidA

If you happen to like Teutonic self obsessed opera

for instance, how are Parsifal or Tristan und Isolde 'teutonic' or self-obsessed?

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