Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Is there any piece missing in this playlist of Tchaikovsky's The Sleeping Beauty?

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Is there any piece missing in this playlist of Tchaikovsky's The Sleeping Beauty?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW28...6vkdl&index=22

    The 22nd to 82nd video in this playlist are supposed to cover the entire ballet, but I'm not sure that it's all there, as it's mostly cut when performed. Wikipedia lists all of the pieces here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sl...let)#Structure

    Can anybody tell me if anything is missing (including everything labeled a, b, c, etc.)? For instance, I found no. 5a, but I'm not sure if no. 5b (Scène des tricoteuses) is included in the video named no. 5 (35th video). Moreover, some videos are titled "no. 2" instead of "no. 2a" and "no. 2b". Here are the pieces which it is not explicitly stated that they are included:

    No. 2a and 2b (might be conglomerated into no. 2)
    No. 4a, 4b and 4c (might be conglomerated into no. 4)
    No. 5-a and 5-b
    No. 9a, 9b, 9c (might be conglomerated into no. 9)
    No. 10-a and 10-b
    No. 14-a and 14-b
    No. 15d and 15e

    Are they missing, or just incorporated into other videos?

    (Quite obviously, no. 27 and 29 are missing entirely from the playlist)

    In addition, there is an introduction to no. 3, which is not listed on Wikipedia, rendering the total number of movements to be 9 instead of 8. Also, no. 13 is divided into 13a and 13b, and no. 26 into 26a and 26b, which is not the case on Wikipedia. What is up with that?

    Sorry for bad English.

  2. #2
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I have read that the two disc version of Previn's Sleeping Beauty has some cuts. I have a three disc version (just over 160 minutes total, which should have just fit on two discs) that I believe is supposed to be the whole thing. The small booklet in the budget packaging doesn't confirm this.



    Can't speak to the video, but the cover art is from the two disc version. And I can't help with track numbers as neither the booklet nor the database I used for tagging includes the numbering.
    Last edited by jegreenwood; Aug-22-2020 at 18:34.

  3. #3
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    1,403
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    I've heard that Bonynge's recording has no cuts, but I don't know for sure if that's the case.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    101
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yes, the Bonynge recording is absolutely complete. Also absolutely complete are Svetlanov (Melodiya); Mogrelia (Naxos); Pletnev (DG); and Järvi (Chandos). Both Pletnev and Järvi play the complete score fast enough to fit it on 2 CDs--although both have been criticized in some quarters for lacking poetry as a result. Note, too, that the Soviet recorded sound of Svetlanov's set isn't to all tastes!

    ALL releases of Previn's recording (including the YouTube form) have cuts. So do almost all other audio recordings of the score. The exact cuts are often difficult to specify, because conductors not only omit whole numbers, but also delete a few bars here, a few bars there.

    All commercially released DVDs of the ballet are also substantially cut. The only complete or near-complete videos of it known to me are the low-quality bootleg in-house videos of Vikharev's reconstruction.

    Something puzzles me. The music lovers of our planet happily sit through the whole of Wagner's Ring, and indeed vilify those conductors who have tried to abridge it (esp. at the Met), but happily endure truncations of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty and often seem to prefer it that way. Now, I admire the Ring as much as anyone, and I've listened to it absolutely complete several times every year for at least 20 yrs... but I wouldn't have said that every bar of it was THAT much more gripping than every bar of Sleeping Beauty.

  5. #5
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    ^Previn couldn't have cut much. His run time is slightly longer than Pletnev, Jarvi and Svetlanov (is that really Jurowski, or are you referring to a different recording?). Mogrelia is almost 15 minutes longer than any of them. I couldn't find the Bonynge at Presto or Amazon.com.

    It's also worth noting this Wikipedia article, which identifies changes to the score.

    Ratmansky's current production, which I saw at the Met, runs 2:58 (according to ABT) including one intermission IIRC. Apparently not the complete score, but you get your money's worth. For the sake of comparison the City Ballet production runs about 2:30 with intermission.
    Last edited by jegreenwood; Aug-25-2020 at 14:23.

  6. Likes adriesba liked this post
  7. #6
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    1,403
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jegreenwood View Post
    ^Previn couldn't have cut much. His run time is slightly longer than Pletnev, Jarvi and Svetlanov (is that really Jurowski, or are you referring to a different recording?). Mogrelia is almost 15 minutes longer than any of them. I couldn't find the Bonynge at Presto or Amazon.com.

    It's also worth noting this Wikipedia article, which identifies changes to the score.

    Ratmansky's current production, which I saw at the Met, runs 2:58 (according to ABT) including one intermission IIRC. Apparently not the complete score, but you get your money's worth. For the sake of comparison the City Ballet production runs about 2:30 with intermission.
    The Bonynge recording is only available by itself on vinyl and in a box set containing all three Tchaikovsky ballets on CD.

  8. #7
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adriesba View Post
    The Bonynge recording is only available by itself on vinyl and in a box set containing all three Tchaikovsky ballets on CD.
    And the CD set seems to be out of print. $179 at Amazon.com. (I paid about $12 for the Previn set of three.)

  9. #8
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    1,403
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jegreenwood View Post
    And the CD set seems to be out of print. $179 at Amazon.com. (I paid about $12 for the Previn set of three.)
    Unfortunately ... It hasn't been sold on Discogs since 2018. Not sure how to get it on CD for a reasonable price anymore. Hopefully Decca releases it again.
    Last edited by adriesba; Aug-25-2020 at 22:31.

  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    101
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    No, I'm talking about Svetlanov's own Melodiya recording, not Jurowski's ICA recording with the so-called "Svetlanov" orchestra. (No recording with the "Svetlanov" orchestra is a genuine Svetlanov recording, because they didn't start calling themselves that until after they had sacked him... curious!)

    Quote Originally Posted by jegreenwood View Post
    ^Previn couldn't have cut much. His run time is slightly longer than Pletnev, Jarvi and Svetlanov (is that really Jurowski, or are you referring to a different recording?).
    Actually Previn's cuts are bigger than you might think, because (as I said above) both Pletnev and Järvi are exceptionally fast (whereas Previn is, if anything, a little more laid back than the average), while the Jurowski is itself cut. It's never safe to deduce the extent of cuts from timing differences.

    But I quite agree that the cuts aren't world shattering, and I certainly don't mean to advocate completeness for completeness's sake. As long as a Sleeping Beauty set includes the Waltz, the Rose Adagio, the Blue Bird, and enough of the remainder to fill up 2 CDs, I imagine most listeners would be very well satisfied!

  11. Likes jegreenwood liked this post
  12. #10
    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gvn View Post
    No, I'm talking about Svetlanov's own Melodiya recording, not Jurowski's ICA recording with the so-called "Svetlanov" orchestra. (No recording with the "Svetlanov" orchestra is a genuine Svetlanov recording, because they didn't start calling themselves that until after they had sacked him... curious!)



    Actually Previn's cuts are bigger than you might think, because (as I said above) both Pletnev and Järvi are exceptionally fast (whereas Previn is, if anything, a little more laid back than the average), while the Jurowski is itself cut. It's never safe to deduce the extent of cuts from timing differences.

    But I quite agree that the cuts aren't world shattering, and I certainly don't mean to advocate completeness for completeness's sake. As long as a Sleeping Beauty set includes the Waltz, the Rose Adagio, the Blue Bird, and enough of the remainder to fill up 2 CDs, I imagine most listeners would be very well satisfied!
    Can you identify any of the cuts?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •