Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 111

Thread: famous youtuber and jazz musician adam neely claims music theory is racist

  1. #91
    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Syracuse, NY USA
    Posts
    13,600
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Whenever Wayne Shorter blows a few notes on tenor or soprano sax I'm immediately convinced of his identity. I can't think of too many other jazz improvisors in that class other than Coltrane and Eric Dolphy. I find all of Shorter's Blue Note albums satisfying. And his contributions to the bands if Art Blakey, and Miles Davis are enormous. With Weather Report his more subtle and abstract approach fit better with the first couple of albums. After that Zawinul's input seemed to dominate. But Wayne still contributed many beautiful compositions to the band's book. Miles said all of Shorter's compositions were perfect and he didn't need to change a thing.
    “Music makes you feel feelings. Words make you think thoughts. But a song can make you feel a thought.”

    - Yip Harburg

  2. Likes Barbebleu, norman bates liked this post
  3. #92
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Along the same lines, we have this.

    Music Prof Politicizes Music To Make It ‘Equal.’ What Happened to Making It Great?
    By TOM GILSON Published on May 5, 2021

    Tom Gilson
    Chris White, assistant professor of music theory at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, doesn’t know Beethoven’s full name, but he insists we use it anyway. Calling him by his last name alone is racist and a sexist language maneuver. And it creates the impression that other composers aren’t on the same musical plane as he was.

    You probably think you misread that. Go ahead, re-read it, I don’t mind, but it isn’t going to make any more sense the second time. Don’t blame me, though; I’m just passing on what White said.

    read further here:

    https://stream.org/music-prof-politi...king-it-great/
    Last edited by Art Rock; May-13-2021 at 09:43. Reason: copyright issues, large part of text deleted

  4. #93
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,833
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Music Prof Politicizes Music To Make It ‘Equal.’ What Happened to Making It Great?
    I'm all for it. Too many composers have been overlooked as the composers we have celebrated for centuries have dominated recordings and performances. I learned the name Edmond Dédé today and am listening to selections from his opera "Morgiane" - it is wonderful music.

    I don't need to hear more Beethoven but would leap at the chance to hear music by more unknown composers.

  5. Likes Portamento liked this post
  6. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    1,505
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadea View Post
    I do agree with the video, which doesn't say the theory itself is racist as far as I remember. It's racist how it is used as a model for every music and to explain classical music's superiority compared to other genres. THAT is racist. I think you didn't get what I said. Or what the video said. Have you watched it fully?
    Are you 15 y/o ??
    Casual composer, pianist, music enthusiast

  7. #95
    Senior Member Amadea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    367
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist View Post
    Are you 15 y/o ??
    No I am not, I'm actually 26, like my profile says. May I ask you if you watched the video fully and considered all the implications of it? Otherwise, the discussion is pointless. The title of the video changed into "Music Theory and White Supremacy" and the video itself doesn't say the music theory itself is racist, rather the way it is taught, how the Schenkerian analysis which is widely taught in USA can be used to prove classical's music superiority to other types of music (non-european music) such as blues, jazz, rock, asian music, etc. being Schenker racist himself. I explained it poorly but the video explains better. I think it is something to think about. I often see classical music lovers and even musicians talking about the superiority of classical music basing exactly on "music theory" (the style of european composers) and I think it's wrong. Sorry, what exactly is so "teenish" about what I said? It should be pretty obvious that if you judge blues with the canons you judge Beethoven then blues is gonna look like trash music. But apparently, many don't get that is the wrong approach to music in general.

  8. #96
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Sad truth, but social inequalities equate to musical inequalities. Beethoven was a better composer than any woman or non-European could have been at the time because he had the opportunity to thrive in the inner circles of Viennese music scene. I am sure plenty of women or non-Europeans had equal latent ability, but sadly never had the opportunity to learn and grow in their art, so it never developed

  9. #97
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,833
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Sad truth, but social inequalities equate to musical inequalities. Beethoven was a better composer than any woman or non-European could have been at the time because he had the opportunity to thrive in the inner circles of Viennese music scene. I am sure plenty of women or non-Europeans had equal latent ability, but sadly never had the opportunity to learn and grow in their art, so it never developed
    Non-European musicians were writing music, just not in the same tradition as Beethoven; and had been active long before Beethoven. They were highly skilled and grew in their art, and were respected in their communities. But were sadly ignored because their tradition was oral and as non-Western societies, they were perceived by the West as on a lower scale of sophistication.

  10. Likes Amadea liked this post
  11. #98
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Non-European musicians were writing music, just not in the same tradition as Beethoven; and had been active long before Beethoven. They were highly skilled and grew in their art, and were respected in their communities. But were sadly ignored because their tradition was oral and as non-Western societies, they were perceived by the West as on a lower scale of sophistication.
    Sure, but I am referring to succeeding within the European tradition, writing Western classical music
    Last edited by Bwv 1080; May-10-2021 at 01:43.

  12. #99
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,833
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Sure, but I am referring to succeeding within the European tradition, writing Western classical music
    Why would they want to do that?

  13. #100
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Why would they want to do that?
    Quite a few women and non-whites tried in the 18th and 19th centuries

  14. #101
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    61
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    If you use the term "racist" then you are biasing the argument. It should be culturally/socially biased, not "racist."
    Couldn't agree more. There was a television programme on recently called 'Is Covid Racist'. We all know what they're referring to but racist? It makes headlines and sadly that's the bottom line.

  15. #102
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,833
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Quite a few women and non-whites tried in the 18th and 19th centuries
    Their choice; but you sound like you think working in European classical music ought to be what all musicians should aspire to.

    I disagree.

    All musical traditions have value and non-Western cultures have produced some of the finest music of any, certainly the equal of Western classical music. I advocate for more music from as wide a variety of cultures as possible.
    Last edited by SanAntone; May-10-2021 at 16:20.

  16. Likes Amadea liked this post
  17. #103
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    940
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Their choice; but you sound like you think working in European classical music ought to be what all musicians should aspire to. .
    That is your projection, not what I said. So I will leave you alone to argue with my strawman

  18. #104
    Senior Member Red Terror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,482
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    That is your projection, not what I said. So I will leave you alone to argue with my strawman
    Enter strawman..

    Last edited by Red Terror; May-12-2021 at 15:29.

  19. #105
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,833
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Sad truth, but social inequalities equate to musical inequalities. Beethoven was a better composer than any woman or non-European could have been at the time because he had the opportunity to thrive in the inner circles of Viennese music scene. I am sure plenty of women or non-Europeans had equal latent ability, but sadly never had the opportunity to learn and grow in their art, so it never developed
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Sure, but I am referring to succeeding within the European tradition, writing Western classical music
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Quite a few women and non-whites tried in the 18th and 19th centuries
    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Their choice; but you sound like you think working in European classical music ought to be what all musicians should aspire to.

    I disagree.

    All musical traditions have value and non-Western cultures have produced some of the finest music of any, certainly the equal of Western classical music. I advocate for more music from as wide a variety of cultures as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    That is your projection, not what I said. So I will leave you alone to argue with my strawman
    As anyone can see from your posts, I was not projecting anything. Your posts were describing your idea that the Western classical tradition ought to be what all musicians aspire to join. I was arguing for the validity of their own culture and tradition.

    I was responding to your words, not any strawman.

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •