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Thread: Do good people make good music?

  1. #46
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    If we demand personal morality from our great composers I’m afraid we have rather slender pickings. We know that even as devout a man as Haydn kept mistresses and Beethoven used brothels. As as for the romantics.......
    When we come to Wagner we not only meet objectionable behaviour but monstrous philosophy.
    So they really do make Domingo look quite tame

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach G View Post

    I hope others would elect to judge me based upon the good that I've done, and not for the times when I've done bad.
    I'm afraid that in the current world it works the other way round. You have only to commit one slip against the demands of an activist clique and you will be cancelled - cast into the outer darkness with no right of appeal and no prospect of any return.
    And it doesn't matter how much good you might have done.

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  4. #48
    Senior Member Jacck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    If we demand personal morality from our great composers I’m afraid we have rather slender pickings. We know that even as devout a man as Haydn kept mistresses and Beethoven used brothels. As as for the romantics.......
    When we come to Wagner we not only meet objectionable behaviour but monstrous philosophy.
    So they really do make Domingo look quite tame
    what exactly is immoral in keeping mistresses and using brothels? There is no harm to anyone, so the acts are perfectly moral.

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  6. #49
    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    what exactly is immoral in keeping mistresses and using brothels? There is no harm to anyone, so the acts are perfectly moral.
    This sounds a bit utilitarian moral understanding but you cannot assume that DavidA's understanding of it is similar. We have different understandings of morality and what is moral for one isn't for other. It might be more effective to talk about ethics because morality is a bit more "absolute" while ethics can come down to our individual views of good and bad, not right and wrong like morals.

    For example, for a Christian, using brothels is morally wrong. For a moral nihilist it's not because he denies existence of such evaluation.

    Thus, I don't think discussing this further is a particularly fruitful undertaking.
    Last edited by annaw; Sep-18-2020 at 11:01.

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  8. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    what exactly is immoral in keeping mistresses and using brothels? There is no harm to anyone, so the acts are perfectly moral.
    Whether 'harm' is caused is a debatable point, which forms part of the process of determining what is and isn't moral. Just because you declare that no harm is caused does not mean we can assume your moral standards are higher or lower (or different) than anyone else's. Your moral thinking may or may not be flawed.

    As Anna says, however, dwelling on this may be important in a more general discussion of morals, but is perhaps less useful if it leads away from the topic of the OP.

  9. #51
    Senior Member JAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    If we demand personal morality from our great composers I’m afraid we have rather slender pickings. We know that even as devout a man as Haydn kept mistresses and Beethoven used brothels. As as for the romantics.......
    When we come to Wagner we not only meet objectionable behaviour but monstrous philosophy.
    So they really do make Domingo look quite tame
    Let him who is without sin compose the first score.

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  11. #52
    Senior Member NLAdriaan's Avatar
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    Good people make absolutely boring music.

  12. #53
    Senior Member Jacck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annaw View Post
    This sounds a bit utilitarian moral understanding but you cannot assume that DavidA's understanding of it is similar. We have different understandings of morality and what is moral for one isn't for other. It might be more effective to talk about ethics because morality is a bit more "absolute" while ethics can come down to our individual views of good and bad, not right and wrong like morals. For example, for a Christian, using brothels is morally wrong. For a moral nihilist it's not because he denies existence of such evaluation. Thus, I don't think discussing this further is a particularly fruitful undertaking.
    Christians, especially the modern degenerate ones, have warped and distorted notions of morality. Most Christians dont understand the message of Christ and act and think contrary to what he tought. Christ in general was pretty compassionate and forgiving about adultery, prostitution etc
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_...en_in_adultery

    but I agree this discussion does not belong here, so let us stop
    Last edited by Jacck; Sep-18-2020 at 11:41.

  13. #54
    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    Christians, especially the modern degenerate ones, have warped and distorted notions of morality. Most Christians dont understand the message of Christ and act and think contrary to what he tought. Christ in general was pretty compassionate and forgiving about adultery, prostitution etc
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_...en_in_adultery

    but I agree this discussion does not belong here, so let us stop
    To be compassionate, you don't have to say some deed is morally right. Forgiveness itself assumes that something needs to be forgiven (we don't "forgive" someone if they helped us).

    But I agree, let's leave it .
    Last edited by annaw; Sep-18-2020 at 12:06.

  14. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    Good people make absolutely boring music.
    So if you formed a strong friendship (based on deep appreciation of character) with a composer, you would expect to hate their music?

  15. #56
    Senior Member NLAdriaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiast View Post
    So if you formed a strong friendship (based on deep appreciation of character) with a composer, you would expect to hate their music?
    Boredom and hate have nothing to do with each other.

  16. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAS View Post
    Let him who is without sin compose the first score.
    Absolutely but I am just stating the facts.

  17. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    Boredom and hate have nothing to do with each other.
    Maybe hate and tedium? I would think that a sustained and active hatred must eventually grow tedious, or at least exhausting.
    Last edited by JAS; Sep-18-2020 at 15:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    Good people make absolutely boring music.
    Not in my experience, professionally speaking that is. Most where very cordial and decent, as well as brilliant. In fact I'd almost go so far as to say the better they were, the nicer.
    Last edited by mikeh375; Sep-18-2020 at 15:35.
    New website and some new music......www.mikehewer.com

  19. #60
    Senior Member NLAdriaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh375 View Post
    Not in my experience, professionally speaking that is. Most where very cordial and decent, as well as brilliant. In fact I'd almost go so far as to say the better they were, the nicer.
    So, you do actually personally know a significant number of live composers?

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