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Thread: COVID19 vaccine announcement is promising news

  1. #286
    Senior Member NoCoPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsbls View Post
    This thread started off as discussions about a Covid-19 vaccine. That discussion is fine. More recently there have been many political comments and comments having nothing to do with Covid or vaccines. Please refrain from such comments. If you don't know how to discuss a Covid vaccine without making political comments, please refrain from posting here.
    Unfortunately the virus, the response to the virus, and the development and rollout of various vaccines have been wrapped around the axel of politics by various reality-denying politicians. To separate the facts on the ground from the context in which they are occurring would require a scalpel and the skill of a surgeon.

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  3. #287
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoCoPilot View Post
    Unfortunately the virus, the response to the virus, and the development and rollout of various vaccines have been wrapped around the axel of politics by various reality-denying politicians. To separate the facts on the ground from the context in which they are occurring would require a scalpel and the skill of a surgeon.
    Quite true. It's happened here in the US, and in the UK as well.

    This pandemic is not the only thing that has become politicized here either. The list of politicized things is long.

    In VACCINE news today, Pfizer announced that they will apply for emergency use of its COVID-19 Vaccine.

    And of course, the discussion on who should get the vaccine first continues.

    But the biggest Vaccine news you may have missed, is that almost a million people have been given an experimental Chinese coronavirus vaccine developed by Sinopharm as part of an emergency-use program authorized by Beijing.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/asia/...hnk/index.html
    Last edited by pianozach; Nov-20-2020 at 19:59.

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    Senior Member Chilham's Avatar
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  6. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsbls View Post
    This thread started off as discussions about a Covid-19 vaccine. That discussion is fine. More recently there have been many political comments and comments having nothing to do with Covid or vaccines. Please refrain from such comments. If you don't know how to discuss a Covid vaccine without making political comments, please refrain from posting here.
    When I wrote the OP I thought people would basically think that a new vaccine is a great thing, although they would want answers to pertinent questions. Instead there erupted all sorts of issues carrying loaded assumptions, including political ones. We're living in a particularly disturbing time politically, and I agree that you can't separate fully the politics from the medicine. Nevertheless, I am elated that not only one but several vaccines exist -- that is something to celebrate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Knox View Post
    When I wrote the OP I thought people would basically think that a new vaccine is a great thing, although they would want answers to pertinent questions. Instead there erupted all sorts of issues carrying loaded assumptions, including political ones. We're living in a particularly disturbing time politically, and I agree that you can't separate fully the politics from the medicine. Nevertheless, I am elated that not only one but several vaccines exist -- that is something to celebrate!
    I see that Don Junior has just tested positive. He'll be another of the ranks of 200 million who have died in the USA (figures quoted by Harris and Biden)?!! I sincerely hope not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilham View Post
    What you say: What I hear:

    Most people die from it. No they don't

    We have to get back to our lives. Axiomatic

    I don't live in fear. Life is for living; nothing to fear but fear

    Keeping me at home is a violation of freedom. Completely unconstitutional;

    You're exaggerating.... Yes, you're exaggerating. Completely


    One table on What I Hear is loaded with emotion and hand-wringing - the other with practical responses and realities. "I can't imagine caring about other people unless they can be used as political weapons"....Priceless.

    Welcome to Identity Politics 101.
    Last edited by Christabel; Nov-21-2020 at 02:26.

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  11. #292
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    I see that Don Junior has just tested positive. He'll be another of the ranks of 200 million who have died in the USA (figures quoted by Harris and Biden)?!! I sincerely hope not.
    I would like to see the exact quotation cited where Harris and Biden state that 200,000,000 Americans have died of the coronavirus. I am sure I am not alone.
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Nov-21-2020 at 02:36.

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    What you say: What I hear:

    Most people die from it. No they don't

    We have to get back to our lives. Axiomatic

    I don't live in fear. Life is for living; nothing to fear but fear

    Keeping me at home is a violation of freedom. Completely unconstitutional;

    You're exaggerating.... Yes, you're exaggerating. Completely


    One table on What I Hear is loaded with emotion and hand-wringing - the other with practical responses and realities. "I can't imagine caring about other people unless they can be used as political weapons"....Priceless.

    Welcome to Identity Politics 101.
    This is a wonderful post! It exemplifies exactly the bizarre combination of restating the obvious and distorting what is plainly and unambiguously set down in order to grind axes to a fine edge. "Most people die from it". No they don't, and nobody has ever asserted that they do. This is so blatant as to be wonderful. I often ask Is there more? And there always is!

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  14. #294
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    This stuff gets very tiresome. Thank God, sez I, that the truths, values, and beliefs held by each of us are universally and eternally true, and that those who hold otherwise are ignorant and uncouth, little better than beasts and possibly even absolutely evil. This holds no matter how strange and bizarre our minds would appear to people in the past, or to people in the future for that matter!

    We live in a moment of eternal unquestioning rightness! How nice for us, eh?
    Last edited by KenOC; Nov-21-2020 at 07:22.


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  16. #295
    Senior Member NoCoPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Thank God, sez I, that the truths, values, and beliefs held by each of us are universally and eternally true, and that those who hold otherwise are ignorant ....
    I'm enough of a cockeyed optimist that I *still* believe in objective reality.

    When I read science-based articles, or see news reports by credentialed scientists, or have discussions with individuals who are knowledgeable in their fields, there is enough concurrence and overlap that I get a pretty high degree of confidence that what they're describing is, in fact, what everyone else can, or should, see.

    But then there are the "other viewpoints." Some people believe in vast conspiracy theories where everyone in the world is trying to trick them. There are people who think all truths are fungible, "alternative facts" are just as good as real facts, alternative medicine is just as good as proven medicine, "my opinion is just as valuable as your facts." There are people who think we're ruled by the alignment of the stars, or that there are lizard people among us, or that the moon landing never happened.

    When I was a kid we called these people "kooks." They were laughed out of public forums.

    Then the FCC Fairness Doctrine was overturned in 1987, and very soon afterwards we got broadcasters (radio and TV) promoting alternative realities 24 x 7 with no requirements for fact-checking or veracity. Entire ecosystems of crazy sprang up, self-reinforcing, untethered from facts, bolstered from outside criticism by refusing to acknowledge outside sources as valid.

    Suddenly, everyone's opinion was equal. Suddenly, history was no longer written, but could be argued ("the Holocaust never happened! It was a Jewish plot to bring down Hitler's government!")

    Dizzying, it is.

    Applying science and logic and rational thinking is now considered "kooky" by a shockingly-large percentage of the public.

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  18. #296
    Senior Member NoCoPilot's Avatar
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    But to get back to the vaccines... the next big hurdle, in 2021 into 2022, will be the fights over who gets the vaccines.

    While the pandemic continues to rage over the next 2-3 years, and the deaths reach seven figures and the infections reach nine or ten, there will be huge fights. By all logic and decency, healthcare workers -- not in the US but all over the world -- should get the vaccine before a single other person gets their first dose. But it's a lead pipe cinch that won't happen.

    Rich countries will hoard, and poor countries will die. Rich cities will hoard, and poor rural areas will die. Rich individual city-dwellers will hoard, and poor individual city-dwellers will die. The distribution of the vaccine will become highly politically charged and contentious.

    Anti-vaxxers will die disproportionately, but friends and relatives of them will be brought down as well. Lots of children will become orphans, and the world isn't set up for that.

    Healthcare will become a high risk, high stress, high burnout and high dropout profession. There will be massive shortages of qualified workers throughout the world -- with no good remedy in sight.

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    KenOC: "those who hold otherwise are ignorant and uncouth, little better than beats and possibly even absolutely evil."
    Now hold on Ken. The poor beats--Kerouac, Ginsberg, Corso, etc.--weren't the greatest group of literary geniuses that America produced, but they weren't actually evil. My father, the dourest, most conservative man you could possibly imagine, told me he had read, and loved, Kerouac's On The Road when it first came out (must've borrowed my copy without telling me). It expressed the wanderlust and free-spiritedness that he never fully got the chance himself to experience.....

  20. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    I see that Don Junior has just tested positive. He'll be another of the ranks of 200 million who have died in the USA (figures quoted by Harris and Biden)?!! I sincerely hope not.
    but think of all those endangered species animals that could be saved
    Last edited by Jacck; Nov-21-2020 at 09:22.

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  22. #299
    Senior Member Jacck's Avatar
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    WHO recommends against using remdesivir to treat Covid-19
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/19/h...nes/index.html

  23. #300
    Senior Member Chilham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    What you say:

    Most people die from it. ....
    .............

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