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Thread: COVID19 vaccine announcement is promising news

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    WHO recommends against using remdesivir to treat Covid-19
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/19/h...nes/index.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    This is a wonderful post! It exemplifies exactly the bizarre combination of restating the obvious and distorting what is plainly and unambiguously set down in order to grind axes to a fine edge. "Most people die from it". No they don't, and nobody has ever asserted that they do. This is so blatant as to be wonderful. I often ask Is there more? And there always is!
    Can I have what you're having? Or perhaps I should just re-read "Alice in Wonderland". Read what I wrote; that 'most people don't die from it" but that was a non-hysterical comment. And a fact. Stop making things up; you know it's not good for you.
    Last edited by Christabel; Nov-21-2020 at 23:53.

  3. #303
    Senior Member Open Book's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoCoPilot View Post
    But to get back to the vaccines... the next big hurdle, in 2021 into 2022, will be the fights over who gets the vaccines.

    While the pandemic continues to rage over the next 2-3 years, and the deaths reach seven figures and the infections reach nine or ten, there will be huge fights. By all logic and decency, healthcare workers -- not in the US but all over the world -- should get the vaccine before a single other person gets their first dose. But it's a lead pipe cinch that won't happen.

    Rich countries will hoard, and poor countries will die. Rich cities will hoard, and poor rural areas will die. Rich individual city-dwellers will hoard, and poor individual city-dwellers will die. The distribution of the vaccine will become highly politically charged and contentious.

    Anti-vaxxers will die disproportionately, but friends and relatives of them will be brought down as well. Lots of children will become orphans, and the world isn't set up for that.

    Healthcare will become a high risk, high stress, high burnout and high dropout profession. There will be massive shortages of qualified workers throughout the world -- with no good remedy in sight.
    Aren't you exaggerating just a little?

    Why wouldn't health care workers get the vaccine first? Everyone wants to see this or there will be no one to fight the disease. Burnout is a problem but at least we're getting a U.S. government that seriously wants to mobilize and fight the disease, which should be encouraging to health care workers.

    Rich countries have an advantage but they are the ones developing the vaccine. Just as China hoarded the PPE it almost exclusively manufactured, it stands to reason an effective vaccine will be used locally first. Rich nations have higher rates of infection than poor nations right now for which I haven't heard any explanation.

    Yes, rich individuals always have advantages over everyone else in everything. But we in the U.S. are going to get a presidency that believes in fighting the disease efficiently, so I think they will realize vaccination can't be limited to just one segment of the population.

    There won't be many child orphans because fatal victims of the disease are largely elderly people.

    And there are many different vaccines in the works.

    It's going to take a little more time. Don't fret.
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  5. #304
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    The elephant in the vaccine room is the large numbers of people who've said they're not having a bar of it. This is a big warning to governments which will over-spend on a vaccine which many won't have. In Australia there is a huge number of people unwilling to trust a hurriedly-developed vaccine. However, we have a comparatively low incidence of Covid-19 compared to most because of our huge country, its somewhat disparate 24.5 million population and federalist (state) system. In our country the tiny proportion of people dying from Covid-19 are mostly over 70; their 3 score years and 10 have arrived. Many are dying WITH Covid-19 rather than from Covid-19 and the younger cohort of natives, especially those under house arrest, are becoming restive and want their rights restored. Come the winter we will face an increase in the incidence of the disease, but arguably not necessarily the percentage increase of carriers and patients to actual deaths.

    It has transpired that there's a big political advantage in keeping the people fear-driven and locked down. One of our worst offenders, the Queensland government, has just been returned with an increased majority in the recent state elections. Incompetent and debt-fuelled; undoubtedly. But the terrified people are doing the voting. Not wanting the vaccine, mind; just wanting nanny to make assurances.

    People have said here in this thread that they don't want politics to enter the discussion about Covid-19. That means a certain shade of politics, first and foremost, but it cannot be denied that there are and will be political advantages and losses with this pandemic. Those politicians who shackle their flags to the 'we are saving the people' mast are certain to fall short. A virus can mutate and this is already happening with Covid-19. The best a politician can do is to suggest, "we will do all we can to enforce safe social practices in the face of a pandemic; we will attempt to protect the vulnerable but people should take their own steps to make sure they maintain the highest levels of good health and fitness with regular diet and exercise". Something like that. Returning agency to the people so that they don't feel helpless and at the behest of power-drunk politicians.

    There are also what I call the "secondary political consequences". Now I cannot, of course, speak here about other nations - only what I experience. The first of these 'secondary' consequences is unemployment/decimated commercial sectors; eg. airlines brought to the brink (these same that contribute massively to government through taxes so they can afford schools, hospitals, defense etc.). But there are also the socio-economic consequences as a 'secondary' consideration. A younger generation of fit and healthy individuals who are effectively restrained from making economic and career progress (oh, except if they're public servants), of buying houses and sharing in the dream. You might say, "oh, it's only temporary". Into almost a year and it's not looking quite so temporary. Anyway, in Australia we have what is known as 'generational resentment'. People blame the baby boomers for not being able to acquire wealth, buy a home, make a fruitful and stable career. It is believed that the baby boomer cohort holds the monopoly on this - as though a monolithic cohort exists, for whom manna suddenly dropped from the heavens.

    Put that generational resentment alongside Covid confinement, rising house prices (because of myriad government incentives to get the building industry going - remember, if the build costs rise the existing house prices also rise). It's not rocket science to see that we face a grievance epidemic for the opportunity cost of saving baby boomer lives.

    That's my beef. It's about the only advantage that comes with age, apart from not being broke; you get to understand the way the world really works.
    Last edited by Christabel; Nov-22-2020 at 01:33.

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  7. #305
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    Can I have what you're having? Or perhaps I should just re-read "Alice in Wonderland". Read what I wrote; that 'most people don't die from it" but that was a non-hysterical comment. And a fact. Stop making things up; you know it's not good for you.
    What I'm having is my usual acuity of mind and analysis. Re-reading Alice always recommended. I read what you wrote: Most People Don't Die From It. My point, which you seemingly cannot grasp, or more accurately ignore, is that No One Ever Asserted That They Did. Your implication, as we both know but that you now repudiate, disavow, forget, disown, was that there was or is some cohort of people who believe and say that COVID kills most victims. A junk statement, one we're growing used to from you. Try to do better; be always aware that I am watching.....

    And what about the 200,000,000 Americans dead of COVID that you claimed Harris and Biden cited? Your silence in providing a source is noted and is deafening. Look it up in Alice, maybe?? People are eager to know.
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Nov-22-2020 at 01:37.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Search on "biden says 200 million dead" and you can find the quote easily enough. It seems quite real but not really worth worrying about.


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    Senior Member NoCoPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel
    The elephant in the vaccine room is the large numbers of people who've said they're not having a bar of it. This is a big warning to governments which will over-spend on a vaccine which many won't have.
    Not a problem. The anti-vaxxers will be self-limiting; they’ll die off in roughly the same percentages as they refuse to accept the 20th Century.

  11. #308
    Senior Member Open Book's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post

    Those politicians who shackle their flags to the 'we are saving the people' mast are certain to fall short. A virus can mutate and this is already happening with Covid-19. The best a politician can do is to suggest, "we will do all we can to enforce safe social practices in the face of a pandemic; we will attempt to protect the vulnerable but people should take their own steps to make sure they maintain the highest levels of good health and fitness with regular diet and exercise". Something like that. Returning agency to the people so that they don't feel helpless and at the behest of power-drunk politicians.
    Not everyone who is vulnerable can shelter. There are longtime cashiers in my local supermarket who are probably in their 60's, forced to keep working in a risky environment because their low salary hasn't given them the savings cushion they would need to stop for any length of time. Would you be in favor of government helping them financially?

    Fitness level is exaggerated as a factor in avoiding serious complications. Some people can have more genetic vulnerabilities to the virus than others regardless of their fitness, just like with cancer and heart disease. It may give you a feeling of control to know you are fit, but you may not have any actual control.

    This virus is unique in culling mostly the old. The Spanish flu actually killed more children, I believe. How would you feel if this coronavirus were killing people of all ages at the same rate or younger people at a higher rate? Would you still advocate the same fixes, "returning agency to the people" ?

    The virus may be mutating but that doesn't mean vaccines would be totally ineffective. We have an annually influenza vaccine that is updated every year and has some effectiveness against that mutating virus. Also treatments may be developed to stop the immune system overreaction that kills people. This could take some time, however, just as HIV treatments took a lot of time to develop.
    Last edited by Open Book; Nov-22-2020 at 02:45.
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  12. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Search on "biden says 200 million dead" and you can find the quote easily enough. It seems quite real but not really worth worrying about.
    Yeah, maybe, but you know it was a slip of the tongue. He meant probably 200 thousand dead, in the U.S. Yeah, he has a lot of slips of the tongue, they do come with age, but he's still sharp in other ways.
    "No one chooses the tuba" - Alexander von Puttkamer

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    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoCoPilot View Post
    Not a problem. The anti-vaxxers will be self-limiting; they’ll die off in roughly the same percentages as they refuse to accept the 20th Century.
    20th Century? That's quite backward alright.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

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    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Open Book View Post
    Yeah, maybe, but you know it was a slip of the tongue. He meant probably 200 thousand dead, in the U.S. Yeah, he has a lot of slips of the tongue, they do come with age, but he's still sharp in other ways.
    He's what the party gave us.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Search on "biden says 200 million dead" and you can find the quote easily enough. It seems quite real but not really worth worrying about.
    Ken, your word I'll take for it and will not need to check. But thanks for asserting that an obvious slip-of-the-tongue was the "culprit". Better to have an aging stutterer in the Oval Office, backed up by an accomplished woman, than someone who daily displays increasing signs of.........

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    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    Ken, your word I'll take for it and will not need to check. But thanks for asserting that an obvious slip-of-the-tongue was the "culprit". Better to have an aging stutterer in the Oval Office, backed up by an accomplished woman, than someone who daily displays increasing signs of.........
    There's been progress. Aren't we surprised that enough voters are ok with a woman being a heartbeat away from the presidency?
    Aren't we surprised that N Korea didn't do some saber-rattling before the election? Our president was unpredictable, did he scare N Korea? Biden's less scary for N Korea?
    200 million, 200 billion, more gaffes are not surprising. That's what advisors are for. I think he'll listen to his advisors. As for the virus, what can a president do?

    Did the virus in the movie Andromeda Strain mutate into something harmless? I don't remember.
    Last edited by Luchesi; Nov-22-2020 at 07:33.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

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    Senior Member Sonata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    WHO recommends against using remdesivir to treat Covid-19
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/19/h...nes/index.html
    Well DAMN. My husband gets his fourth of five Remdesivir treatments tomorrow. If this or the steroids don't work we're in trouble

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    If you know little about vaccines, how do you conclude that the potential for saving lives is breathtaking? Perhaps you meant the "presumed" potential?
    You are being pedantic. "Potential" in itself is an estimation, not a set level of achievement. Presumed potential is redundant

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