Page 3 of 68 FirstFirst 12345671353 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 1006

Thread: COVID19 vaccine announcement is promising news

  1. #31
    Senior Member CnC Bartok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Oxford-ish
    Posts
    1,919
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tdc View Post
    It is vitally important now, I'm trying to actually help. You may want to get checked out for Stockholm Syndrome.
    I'd get yourself checked out for paranoia!

    While of course it is ridiculous to automatically assume every pharmaceutical company is operating purely for the benefit of Mankind, making the assumption - as you clearly have - that these "toxic evil faceless money-grabbing corporations" (or to most people "corporations") are there purely to make a fast buck and sod the collateral is both incorrect and significantly more harmful as far as I am concerned. The whole process of drug development is of course flawed, but it does tend to work (eventually!) even if the investment and material costs are enormous and there's no guarantee of success. If I invested money in such ventures (and I have) I would hope for some sort of dividend (not just literally) from the product my money as an investor has helped develop. It's called Capitalism, and when controlled by appropriate checks and balances, it's the best system we have, old chap, or at least the alternatives are too horrible to contemplate...
    Last edited by CnC Bartok; Nov-11-2020 at 10:02.

  2. Likes mikeh375, wkasimer, Allegro Con Brio liked this post
  3. #32
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sharon, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,038
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    The failure of the public (on the whole) to adopt precautionary steps, such as wearing masks, and social distancing, is probably responsible for the US having a disastrous 2nd wave, and an upcoming disastrous 3rd wave. The failure of the public to "get on board" is likely due to the mixed messages from the White House, indeed, from the mockery of wearing masks, and the seriousness of the virus itself.
    So how do you explain the fact that many other countries, particularly in Europe, have seen and are seeing similar trends? Is that Trump's fault, too?

  4. Likes Caroline, SixFootScowl liked this post
  5. #33
    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    1,729
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline View Post
    True - the vaccine isn't changing the genome...exactly...or potentially...

    "...mRNA vaccines provide instructions for cells to start producing the “spike” protein of the new coronavirus, the protein that helps the virus get into cells. On its own, the spike protein isn’t (?) harmful. But it triggers the immune system to begin a defensive response. As Bill Gates, who has supported companies like Moderna and BioNTech through the Gates Foundation, has described it, “you essentially turn your body into its own manufacturing unit.”

    In July the US Government bought up 100M doses with the option for 500M more (cost $2B for the 100M doses). EU has ordered similarly. So, it seems like the vaccine will be widely available.

    One (of many) oddities is how Pfizer can claim a 90% efficacy of their vaccine candidate. They will have 2 months of data collected - 44,000 participants. I suppose we have only to believe what we are told as there is no benchmark.
    Again, in the Nature News article I cited earlier:

    Although the vaccine might not turn out to be quite so effective once the trial is complete and all the data have been analysed, its effectiveness is likely to stay well above 50%, says Eric Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in La Jolla, California. This is the threshold that the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) says is required for a coronavirus vaccine to be approved for emergency use.

    No one in the article is claiming that it will necessarily stay at 90% but it's simply good news from early trials. I mean, what alternative do we have? One of the scientist in the end of the article says quite well: “Right now, we need a vaccine that works,” says Krammer, even if it works for only a few months or doesn’t stop transmission. “That’s what we need in order to get half-way back to normal.”

    What other choice do we have? It's especially a pressing problem in countries with many cases, like the US. In Estonia, schools are working, stores are open, and, as far as I know, even the entertainment section is open. Our biggest film festival just begun.... There has been lots of governmental work to control it and they've been rather successful. Similar regulations are probably a lot more difficult to create in big countries, who also tend to have a huge number of cases. Unless someone comes up with a super efficient medicine, vaccine seems to be by far the best way to control the virus. What is your alternative idea? The economy in countries with a severe pandemic would suffer even more if we just decided to wait.
    Last edited by annaw; Nov-11-2020 at 13:22.

  6. Likes adriesba liked this post
  7. #34
    Senior Member Jacck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    4,861
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wkasimer View Post
    So how do you explain the fact that many other countries, particularly in Europe, have seen and are seeing similar trends? Is that Trump's fault, too?
    countries in Europe have also inept politicians and people are fatigued by the pandemic and reluctant to maintain the measures. Politics clearly does play a major role in containing the pandemic.
    https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

  8. Likes CnC Bartok, Caroline liked this post
  9. #35
    Senior Member CnC Bartok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Oxford-ish
    Posts
    1,919
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    countries in Europe have also inept politicians and people are fatigued by the pandemic and reluctant to maintain the measures. Politics clearly does play a major role in containing the pandemic.
    https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june
    That's a great chart he's animated there.

    That said, I am not really sure of the existence of a causal relationship. An individual's circumstances have an effect on how they vote, and will also have an effect on their exposure to the virus and thus their likelihood of catching it. I'm not sure "having a Republican in charge of your state means you are more likely to catch covid"!

    Here in the UK, the South West has (so far) had it relatively easy. Down there they tended to vote for Brexit. Maybe the xenophobic bigoted gene provides some protection

  10. Likes Jacck liked this post
  11. #36
    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Change. Eternal.
    Posts
    2,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Since it is ''Pfizer'' I wonder are there additional effects to the drug...
    'Listen, Mister god!
    Isn't it boring
    to dip your puffy eyes,
    every day, into a jelly of clouds?'

  12. Likes Caroline liked this post
  13. #37
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sharon, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,038
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    countries in Europe have also inept politicians and people are fatigued by the pandemic and reluctant to maintain the measures. Politics clearly does play a major role in containing the pandemic.
    https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june
    Interesting that the referenced chart starts the clock on June 1. I assume that this date was chosen to make a political point.

    Perhaps a more important graph is this one, from the same page:

    https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/state...deaths-by-date

  14. #38
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    758
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tdc View Post
    Look into Merck and Vioxx, look into Bayer and HIV tainted blood clot medicine, look into some of the work of Robert Kennedy Jr. or Del Bigtree. They've exposed much more. Maybe you prefer getting your information from outlets that are sponsored by big pharma? Who do you think is sponsoring all the covid propaganda? Do some research into sources that don't have a conflict of interest.


    It is vitally important now, I'm trying to actually help. You may want to get checked out for Stockholm Syndrome.
    Really - RFK jr and Del Bigtree? Those frauds? Do you really think vaccines cause autism, despite the mountain of scientific evidence to the contrary? This peddling of pseudoscience has already resulted in too much illness and death, mods should place a ban on anti-vax quackery just like they would with holocaust denial or inciting racism

  15. Likes wkasimer, mikeh375, Baron Scarpia and 2 others liked this post
  16. #39
    Senior Member CnC Bartok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Oxford-ish
    Posts
    1,919
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    Really - RFK jr and Del Bigtree? Those frauds? Do you really think vaccines cause autism, despite the mountain of scientific evidence to the contrary? This peddling of pseudoscience has already resulted in too much illness and death, mods should place a ban on anti-vax quackery just like they would with holocaust denial or inciting racism
    Sorry, we don't have Kennedy jnr and that Bigtree chap in the UK. Just looked them up.

    What profoundly awful people.

  17. Likes Bwv 1080, wkasimer liked this post
  18. #40
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    758
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CnC Bartok View Post
    Sorry, we don't have Kennedy jnr and that Bigtree chap in the UK. Just looked them up.

    What profoundly awful people.
    well Andrew Wakefield more than makes up for it on your end, although he has found a home and a following in my home state

  19. Likes CnC Bartok, wkasimer liked this post
  20. #41
    Senior Member CnC Bartok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Oxford-ish
    Posts
    1,919
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwv 1080 View Post
    well Andrew Wakefield more than makes up for it on your end, although he has found a home and a following in my home state
    Yeah, I remember him, all that rubbish about combined MMR jabs and autism. Can I say you're welcome to him, and if you're feeling charitable, we can always offer you David Icke as well!

  21. Likes Bwv 1080 liked this post
  22. #42
    Senior Member Caroline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Northeast USA
    Posts
    261
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by annaw View Post
    Again, in the Nature News article I cited earlier:

    Although the vaccine might not turn out to be quite so effective once the trial is complete and all the data have been analysed, its effectiveness is likely to stay well above 50%, says Eric Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in La Jolla, California. This is the threshold that the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) says is required for a coronavirus vaccine to be approved for emergency use.

    No one in the article is claiming that it will necessarily stay at 90% but it's simply good news from early trials. I mean, what alternative do we have? One of the scientist in the end of the article says quite well: “Right now, we need a vaccine that works,” says Krammer, even if it works for only a few months or doesn’t stop transmission. “That’s what we need in order to get half-way back to normal.”

    What other choice do we have? It's especially a pressing problem in countries with many cases, like the US. In Estonia, schools are working, stores are open, and, as far as I know, even the entertainment section is open. Our biggest film festival just begun.... There has been lots of governmental work to control it and they've been rather successful. Similar regulations are probably a lot more difficult to create in big countries, who also tend to have a huge number of cases. Unless someone comes up with a super efficient medicine, vaccine seems to be by far the best way to control the virus. What is your alternative idea? The economy in countries with a severe pandemic would suffer even more if we just decided to wait.
    Check out the historical journalism on the 1976 Swine Flu vaccine, which was rushed through. It did more damage than good.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bOHYZhL0WQ&t=367s

    People who want to take a vaccine, when it becomes available, should do so. I'm not sold on the idea of a vaccine.
    Last edited by Caroline; Nov-11-2020 at 17:40.

    “Whoever tells a lie is not pure of heart, and such a person can not cook a clean soup.” - Beethoven

  23. Likes SixFootScowl liked this post
  24. #43
    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Change. Eternal.
    Posts
    2,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I guess its possible that some of the jabs in the past were ''spiced'' with different diseases on purpose or accidentally but is there an agenda behind it its hard to tell...Conspiracies are a deepest rabbit hole of the ''interwebs'' on par with porn..
    'Listen, Mister god!
    Isn't it boring
    to dip your puffy eyes,
    every day, into a jelly of clouds?'

  25. Likes Caroline liked this post
  26. #44
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Next to Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    14,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    countries in Europe have also inept politicians and people are fatigued by the pandemic and reluctant to maintain the measures. Politics clearly does play a major role in containing the pandemic.
    https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june
    I tried to view that site but it is like a room full of cats on catnip. Things would not stop moving so I closed the tab.
    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12

  27. Likes Caroline liked this post
  28. #45
    Senior Member NoCoPilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    232
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    I'm looking at the graph of cases since the beginning of the year in the USA, and it appears, to me, that we have just entered the THIRD WAVE.
    To be perfectly accurate what we're in is a THIRD SURGE not a third wave, because we never brought the rate of new cases down to near zero. Early on, in this pandemic, everyone was talking "flattening the curve" so everyone didn't get sick all at once and overwhelm the healthcare system. Well, we've SLOWED the new infection rate a couple of times, and spread out the new infections over almost a year now, but with a "novel coronavirus" nobody has any immunity so it will continue to spread until either everybody's had it, or there's a vaccine. With 10 million cases now and a population of 331 million, that means 321 million more Americans have to get sick to fulfill the first scenario (the one favored by Dr. Scott Atlas and the current administration). With a 3% mortality rate that's almost ten million dead. Most scientists see that as morally unacceptable.

Page 3 of 68 FirstFirst 12345671353 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •