Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Music Theory is Biased

  1. #1
    Banned (Temporarily)
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,721
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default Music Theory is Biased


  2. Likes Boychev liked this post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Isaac Blackburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    101
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    But is it right or wrong? should be our only consideration.

    Schenker, for example, saw an analogy between the domination of the tonic over the other tones and the domination of the white race over the others...but it does not mean that a hierarchical relationship is not the best way to describe tonal structure.
    Last edited by Isaac Blackburn; Nov-15-2020 at 16:16.

  4. #3
    Banned (Temporarily)
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,721
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac Blackburn View Post
    But is it right or wrong? should be our only consideration.

    Schenker, for example, saw an analogy between the domination of the tonic over the other tones and the domination of the white race over the others...but it does not mean that a hierarchical relationship is not the best way to describe tonal structure.
    So why do we need the analogy? That should be the consideration.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Isaac Blackburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    101
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    So why do we need the analogy? That should be the consideration.
    There is no analogy. The tones are subject in varying degrees to the 1st scale degree, in that the triads built upon them are understood in relation to the tonic, feel its influence even after long stretches of time, and gravitate towards it. This is a hierarchical relationship, with the vertical being stability.

  6. #5
    Banned (Temporarily)
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,721
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac Blackburn View Post
    There is no analogy.
    I'm referring to the analogy Schenker made, which you cited. Do you mean, "in reality" there is no analogy?

    The tones are subject in varying degrees to the 1st scale degree, in that the triads built upon them are understood in relation to the tonic, feel its influence even after long stretches of time, and gravitate towards it. This is a hierarchical relationship, with the vertical being stability.
    Hmm...I wonder if we could express intervals this way? The first scale degree could be "1", and the other scale degrees could be fractions: 2:3, 3:4, 4:5, and so on.

    We could give the triads built upon these scale degrees Roman numerals, like ii, iii, IV, V, and so on.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Nov-15-2020 at 20:22.

  7. #6
    Banned (Temporarily)
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,721
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default

    The communal language of music that all musicians share - that is, the language of scales, theory, and intervals that we all use when explaining or communicating music - really has nothing to do with any instrument other than the piano, or with any other paradigm than "the music of white European males of the 18th-19th centuries.

  8. Likes hammeredklavier liked this post
  9. #7
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    16,865
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Don't scream. It looks desperate. But I guess that since nobody is having this crap on other threads you also want to dominate, you're hoping that at least the theory crowd can be bludgeoned into submission. How about red print next time? You have some experience with that mode of intimidation.

  10. Likes mikeh375, hammeredklavier liked this post
  11. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    arkansas/missouri
    Posts
    1,462
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    By coincidence, I watched a video by that guy yesterday - the Worst Jazz Solo Ever. Biased theory is malarkey. Color for you, Woodduck . Composers of any stripe/dot/plaid are free to utilize theory practices from any source. What the audience decides to enjoy is up to the audience.

  12. Likes mikeh375 liked this post
  13. #9
    Banned (Temporarily)
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    15,721
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by david johnson View Post
    By coincidence, I watched a video by that guy yesterday - the Worst Jazz Solo Ever. Biased theory is malarkey. Color for you, Woodduck . Composers of any stripe/dot/plaid are free to utilize theory practices from any source. What the audience decides to enjoy is up to the audience.
    I experienced a lot of backwash when I espoused some ideas based on jazz. A lot of the theory thinkers in this forum cannot think objectively or outside the box, when it comes to various harmonic ideas. Once they learn the orthodox name for something, they are attached to it exclusively, and will attack any idea they see as an attack on this way of thinking.
    George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Theory is a good example. When I showed that, harmonically, the C Lydian scale is more consonant than the C major scale (because of the placement of the tritone B-F in relation to the root C), this was dismissed as "nonsense" by Woodduck and EdwardBast.

  14. #10
    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    2,949
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    How about red print next time?
    He already did:

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    You are receiving a warning at TalkClassical for chiding and mocking other members. Please refrain from this and keep your posts polite and civil.
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Nov-30-2020 at 01:17.

  15. #11
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hello,
    What a lovely video.

  16. #12
    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Ford Nation
    Posts
    5,436
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Music theory is racist, and so is the English language and math. Abolish schools.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifes...010-story.html
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

  17. Likes Woodduck, Cretan liked this post
  18. #13
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    16,865
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    Music theory is racist, and so is the English language and math. Abolish schools.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifes...010-story.html
    Unfortunately home schooling is also racist. But so is no education at all. The sad truth is that existence itself is racist. So is nonexistence. Even black holes have white holes oppressing them. Music theory is the least of our worries.

  19. Likes Phil loves classical, Cretan liked this post
  20. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    1,049
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Although Adam Neely (as per usual) greatly oversimplifies things here, and the appeals to racism do not seem very well-substantiated, I do think he has some valid points. The way we teach music theory is parochial and outdated - even when it comes to analyzing Western classical music.
    Last edited by BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist; Dec-03-2020 at 22:45.
    Casual composer, pianist, music enthusiast

  21. #15
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    1,912
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    Music theory is racist, and so is the English language and math. Abolish schools.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifes...010-story.html
    We suck.

    Our race should be exterminated.
    Last edited by pianozach; Dec-06-2020 at 22:40.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •