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Thread: Live recordings. Cough and applause. Can you stand them?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsolutelyBaching View Post
    I don't know what the poetry means. Benjamin Britten didn't understand what Yeats meant, and he quoted him incessantly!

    So I'll share a personal story instead.

    Slightly elderly sister, in March, pre-Lock Down, goes to her monthly evening Women's Institute meeting. I tell her not to go, because I don't want her catching anything. She goes regardless, and finds (thank heavens) that the WI have cancelled the meeting pre-emptively. I tick her off for going anyway: her husband is 88 and is ripe for being killed off by her stupidly wanting to share a raspeberry jam-filled victoria sandwich with a bunch of relatively old people.

    She sends me a text saying it's all a Chinese hoax, that it was a biological weapon research project that went wrong. I point out that it's either a hoax or a biological weapon, but it can't be both. In silence, she ignores the logic issue. I then send her various scientific articles from Ars Technica, quoting Nature articles and the like, in which they demonstrate by DNA analysis that this wasn't a man-made virus and that it probably originates from bats. She replies, and I quote, 'Unlike you, I don't get my information from the BBC. I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances from whom I choose to get my information'.

    Well, she's an English teacher, so full marks to her for the correct use of the accusative case, but not one of her friends is a biologist, a medical scientist, an ENT specialist, a DNA specialist, a virologist or, indeed, and to cut things short, anyone who could competently advise her on the science of the situation. I haven't spoken to her since, because I simply won't put up with that sort of medieval, Dunning-Kruger type nonsense.

    Frankly, the median age of the classical music listener is such as to make most of us here more likely to die of this thing than the average. Thus: I take it seriously. Others are, of course, free not to: but don't share misinformation about it. And don't repeat the misinformation spread by others when replying to them, please.

    I am frankly astonished at the lack of care for others that has already been evinced by some of the posts in this thread. Funny stories about throat sweet wrappers are one thing; claims that it's all just a bit of the 'flu and we don't mind the odd geriatric dying early... well, it's just stupid and callous. I don't care what your politics are (and if your a left-pondian, I especially don't care). But this venue is not the place for it. You kill who you want to. This poster is not for killing.

    Short version: I will report anyone who posts anything about Covid-19 that is based on opinion, rather than scientific, peer-approved fact. And if it keeps up, and the mods won't react, I will do to TC as I have done to my sister and take my conversations elsewhere.
    It was the first time I’d come across the view that it’s better to let people die than to cancel concerts. Or rather, to let the vulnerable die in order to allow the people who are feel less vulnerable to COVID “feel alive again.” I am sure this opinion is not uncommon, but it was the first time I’d come across it stated so proudly and clearly. The words which came into my mind were that the worst are full of passionate intensity. We may be saved by a vaccine, things look promising on that front. If not I fear that we will see some dark times ahead.
    Last edited by Mandryka; Nov-19-2020 at 23:30.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsolutelyBaching View Post
    A call for the CDC to be regarded as 'corrupt', plus unscientific nonsense about vaccines based on zero actual scientific knowledge is a health issue, and I'll report anyone that spouts such stuff here. Keep your non-scientific opinions to yourself (along with your virus load) and we'll be A-OK. Share it, and I'll report it.



    And that comment is right on the cusp. First, it's not just geriatrics dying of Covid-19.

    Secondly, you quip about your own grandparents dying gasping for breath if you like. But don't do it here. Have the barest minimum of decency and humanity, for heaven's sake.

    Stick to coughing and throat sweet stories please. This is not the place to be spreading misinformation about a very serious health problem for millions of people.
    You're going to "report it"? Where have I heard that before? And your dictatorial tone is part of that too. Ah, the modern Left. Such nice, caring people. As long as you agree with them you'll be OK.
    Last edited by Christabel; Nov-19-2020 at 23:35.

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    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    Please.... STOP!!!
    "Pop music is for the body, but opera is for the soul." — Angela Gheorghiu

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    Senior Member annaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    You're going to "report it"? Where have I heard that before? And your dictatorial tone is part of that too. Ah, the modern Left. Such nice, caring people. As long as you agree with them you'll be OK.
    I believe that respect for science should have absolutely nothing to do with political views.

    Otherwise, I think I'm so used to coughing in historical opera recordings that I don't give it too much attention, unless it's very extreme, I suppose. I recall Barbebleu's amusing remark when he was listening to Ludwig's 1949 Tannhäuser: "They may have had to bury half the audience after this performance if the amount of consumptive coughing is anything to go by."

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  9. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by annaw View Post
    I believe that respect for science should have absolutely nothing to do with political views.

    Otherwise, I think I'm so used to coughing in historical opera recordings that I don't give it too much attention, unless it's very extreme, I suppose. I recall Barbebleu's amusing remark when he was listening to Ludwig's 1949 Tannhäuser: "They may have had to bury half the audience after this performance if the amount of consumptive coughing is anything to go by."
    I'm not talking about politics, but a particular demographic which won't tolerate dissent. The jury is out on the benefits of shutting down the international economy. Very much so.

    We can only be envious of people who have the luxury of coughing in performances; our musicians are out packing supermarket shelves.

  10. #66
    Senior Member AbsolutelyBaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    You're going to "report it"? Where have I heard that before? And your dictatorial tone is part of that too. Ah, the modern Left. Such nice, caring people. As long as you agree with them you'll be OK.
    There is a reporting function for this site, which I intend to make use of should selfish, silly people with more concern for program selling in the interval than for the well-being of their grandparents post disinformation (as opposed to opinion, which is fine).

    I'm actually not particularly left-wing. I have Margaret Thatcher's autograph, for starters.

    Just don't post non-fact and expect people to not notice. Your air-head comment about it's just geriatrics was the icing on a *****-cake. Just stop it, in the name of human decency.
    Last edited by AbsolutelyBaching; Nov-19-2020 at 23:50.

  11. #67
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annaw View Post
    I believe that respect for science should have absolutely nothing to do with political views.
    You're right. Which is why I get my facts from the vaccine package inserts (not CNN or the NYT) and then Google the adverse reactions and find studies reporting on them. But I can't talk about this without the threat of being "reported" and probably banned if I keep up.

    So I'm done.

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    Senior Member AbsolutelyBaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    I'm not talking about politics, but a particular demographic which won't tolerate dissent.
    It has nothing to do with dissent, but with disinformation.

    You are free to weigh the economic consequences of having concerts versus the deaths that may be consequent on holding them. That's a fine judgment call, and I'm glad I don't have to make it.

    What you are not free to do is cough in my face. Nor are you free to spout conspiracy theories about it (which you didn't do, but the person you posted in approval of did).

    As for your "quip". It's just tasteless, which is why I haven't reported it and won't. You want to p"ss on people's graves go right ahead. I'm certainly not dictating that you can't. I just don't think it's a particularly good look.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christabel View Post
    The jury is out on the benefits of shutting down the international economy. Very much so.

    We can only be envious of people who have the luxury of coughing in performances; our musicians are out packing supermarket shelves.
    And you are entirely free to think and post so. It's an entirely valid point. But saying the CDC is corrupt and then posting to support the guy that said that? Not.

    Stick to making fun of old people dying. That's tasteless, but fine.

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    Senior Member AbsolutelyBaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    You're right. Which is why I get my facts from the vaccine package inserts (not CNN or the NYT) and then Google the adverse reactions and find studies reporting on them. But I can't talk about this without the threat of being "reported" and probably banned if I keep up.

    So I'm done.
    You didn't get your assertion that the CDC was corrupt from a vaccine package insert, so don't compound things by telling untruths.

    All medicines have contraindications. Every single one of them, including aspirin which can make you bleed to death.

    You want to post peer-reviewed cautions about a specific vaccine? Be my guest. You want to make light of a pandemic that has killed a quarter of a million of your fellow citizens? Also be my guest, actually: I can't mandate you have a social conscience, and if you don't, that's a matter for you, not me.

    But you make statements that the CDC is corrupt? No. Just no. Assinine political trolling, devoid of accredited facts or science.

    So I'm glad you're done, and if you are, so am I.

    It's a classical music venue, not a GOP chapter meeting. Stick to music.
    Last edited by AbsolutelyBaching; Nov-20-2020 at 00:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born.
    "All things fall and are built again
    And those that build them again are gay."

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    Senior Member vtpoet's Avatar
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    I don't mind coughing during a live performance, and which I'm attending (pre-pandemic of course), but coughing kills recordings. Any noise from an audience kills the recording because it essentially becomes part of the performance—the same damned cough, at the same time, every time a listen. Might as well just go ahead and write the cough into the sheet music.
    Last edited by vtpoet; Nov-20-2020 at 02:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
    "All things fall and are built again
    And those that build them again are gay."
    Or lesbian, as the case may be...

  19. #73
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtpoet View Post
    I don't mind coughing during a live performance, and which I'm attending (pre-pandemic of course), but coughing kills recordings. Any noise from an audience kills the recording because it essentially becomes part of the performance—the same damned cough, at the same time, every time a listen. Might as well just go ahead and write the cough into the sheet music.
    This is a lot like how I feel. The extra noises are worse over time because you start to anticipate them. This is also why I don't like it when studio recordings of operas add a bunch of unnecessary extra noises that are not in the score or libretto.
    "Pop music is for the body, but opera is for the soul." — Angela Gheorghiu

  20. #74
    Senior Member BlackAdderLXX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skakner View Post
    What's your opinion?
    Is coughing and/or applause, deal breaker for an otherwise excellent live recording?
    For me, absolutely. I just can't tolerate both.
    I don't own many live recordings just for these two reasons. The moment I detect either of them, the recording will go on the shelve for ever. I will never listen to it again. Thankfully, there are too many choices for good recordings.
    In the Concert halls there is no alternative but in my private listening, when I am in my favorite composer's musical universe, there is no need to suffer the "noise pollution"...

    Glenn Gould's humming is something different...
    Noises like that are a nonstarter with me. Same with humming.
    If I had a time machine I'd go back and warn these artists about their album covers

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  22. #75
    Senior Member Open Book's Avatar
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    I'm annoyed because a lot of coughing could be suppressed if the audience member cared. I have a chronic cough condition and I never know when it will come on. But I can hold it until pauses in the program.

    Even worse than coughing is rattling paper of any kind, that is totally preventable. Don't keep opening and closing your program and don't unwrap cellophane-sealed lozenges during a concert. Just don't.

    But you know what? I think about one quarter of any audience doesn't really want to be there and doesn't care about being fastidious. How do I know? In other threads here half the people have no one close to them who is really into classical music, yet almost everyone goes to concerts in pairs or groups.
    Last edited by Open Book; Nov-22-2020 at 03:09.
    "No one chooses the tuba" - Alexander von Puttkamer

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