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  1. #76
    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjetil Heggelund View Post
    I still think Fb-minor is a funny thought
    See the beginning of the development section in the first movement of Beethoven's Sonata Op. 57, mm. 70ff. It's written as E minor but it's origins — reached from Fb major enharmonically spelled (mm. 67ff), which in turn occurs as the VI of the Ab minor that ends the exposition — make it "really" F-flat minor. This is in a sense confirmed by a continuing modulating spiral by minor 6ths in the subsequent passages

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  3. #77
    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    Plus there are different degrees in diatonicism. You can have some chromaticism and still maintain a degree of diatonicism. It's not purely one or the other.
    "diatonic containment of chromaticism"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=538YjmPOTw8&t=3m27s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmsH1kRfl3g&t=7m12s


    obviously differs from this sort of expression:

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  5. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post
    "diatonic containment of chromaticism" obviously differs from this sort of expression:
    Mozart's diatonic chromaticism is based on root movements of fifths, as Bernstein demonstrated. This is what the major scale and system of chord function was designed for.
    A fifth (7 semitones) is not a divisor for 12 within the octave; it is not recursive, and must travel outside the octave (7 X 12=84) before it coincides with its staring point and closes its circle of travel.

    Likewise, the fourth (its inversion) is 5 semitones (5 X 12=60), before it circles back around.

    The smaller intervals are recursive within the octave, and do not encourage travel: the m2, M2, m3, M3, and tritone. This is "true" chromaticism. Root movement using these intervals leaves the key area more quickly and breaks down the diatonicism.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Nov-26-2020 at 18:01.

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